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>but does it really need to be for a one-off home repair? Again: cue the "Apple provided me with second-class tools that are NOT the ones they used in store an

>but does it really need to be for a one-off home repair? Again: cue the "Apple provided me with second-class tools that are NOT the ones they used in store and I broke my iPhone" story. Manufacturers can't possibly satisfy "right to repair" if every single person gets to decide how they want to do the repair, how much compromise they're prepared to take in terms of likely outcome and so on.

Nextgrid 4y ago
Apple can trivially comply with Right To Repair by just selling parts, documentation and any software needed to pair new parts. They don't have to provide tools, just like car manufacturers don't provide tools when you buy parts. This repair programme is purely a PR move to maliciously (attempt) to comply with Right to Repair and try to prevent actual regulation all while putting the spotlight on how complicated, dangerous and time-consuming repair to discourage people from ever trying it.
- gjsman-1000 4y ago
  Did you even research the program? Apple’s SSR store will happily sell you the parts without the toolkit if you want to improvise and use the iFixIt method of repair. You are not required to buy or rent any tools when placing an order.
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    > Did you even research the program? Yes, I did. I summarized my thoughts on it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31458161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31458161 I still stand by my opinion that this is malicious compliance to prevent formal Right To Repair legislation - not necessarily about the tooling (indeed, optionally providing tooling is a good move) but the fact that besides the problems mentioned in the linked comment, the actual selection of parts is minimal, hopefully for the time being.
- Someone 4y ago
  Browsing https://selfservicerepair.com/home https://selfservicerepair.com/home, it seems to me they do more or less exactly that (the parts sometimes are bundled with mounting screws, the manuals assume you have professional tools, and you’ll have to call them to DRM ‘register’ your new part with the other hardware. I can’t find the requirement to rent this set of tools on that site (disclaimer: I can’t fully emulate a sale, as the site asks for an IMEI, and I don’t have a device for which they sell parts) So, from my browsing, renting the tools seems optional.
- NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
  >Apple can trivially comply with Right To Repair by just selling parts, documentation and any software needed to pair new parts. ... which they do! It's $69.00 for the iPhone 13 mini battery or $70.99 for the kit which also includes a replacement display adhesive and a set of spare security screws. In both cases, you can get $24.15 credit when you return your old battery. You don't have to get the toolkit; you can put together your own tools and do whatever crazy shit you want with a hairdryer or whatever. Are you seriously saying that Apple's decision to both sell and rent (on what I'm pretty sure must be a loss-making basis) the tools that they themselves use for the repairs is ... malicious?
  - mmastrac 4y ago
    It's designed to make the process complicated and financially risky. That is the malicious part.
    - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
      What? Let me get this clear: Apple provides no tools - you are OK with this. Apple provides optional tools, which are the ones they use - this "make[s] the process complicated and financially risky". Is that what you are saying? Can you walk me through your logic because it's escaping me. Objectively, it is a risky process to do without the right tools based on feedback from people who have actually done it on a regular basis; ref. the poster upthread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31457776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31457776
    - Nextgrid 4y ago
      My problem with this process is that it's a low-volume, just-in-time system where you have to order the part, do the repair and send back your old part in a limited timeframe otherwise you are overcharged, not to mention the final step of having Apple support pair the new part to your phone to disable the warnings. It's unnecessarily annoying and admin-heavy. Compare that to just buying a handful of batteries and keeping them "just in case" so you can then do the repair in your own time as needed. I currently do that but have to use grey-market parts as Apple won't sell them to me without the aforementioned restrictions.
zenexer 4y ago
> Again: cue the "Apple provided me with second-class tools that are NOT the ones they used in store and I broke my iPhone" story. Oh, I’m not complaining about the tools. If they didn’t have an ass-backwards policy that could be construed as preventing you from using the tools on anything other than an approved Apple product, I’d have a rental kit shipped to me and just pay the security deposit. Sure, I could buy the tools outright, but then I wouldn’t get the cool cases, and the policy still seems to imply the tools are only to be used for Apple products. Again, this is great for repair shops. These are great tools at reasonable prices that are meant to last. But y’know what would be even better? Making a battery that you can replace with a fingernail.

Nextgrid 4y ago

Apple can trivially comply with Right To Repair by just selling parts, documentation and any software needed to pair new parts. They don't have to provide tools, just like car manufacturers don't provide tools when you buy parts. This repair programme is purely a PR move to maliciously (attempt) to comply with Right to Repair and try to prevent actual regulation all while putting the spotlight on how complicated, dangerous and time-consuming repair to discourage people from ever trying it.

gjsman-1000 4y ago
Did you even research the program? Apple’s SSR store will happily sell you the parts without the toolkit if you want to improvise and use the iFixIt method of repair. You are not required to buy or rent any tools when placing an order.
- Nextgrid 4y ago
  > Did you even research the program? Yes, I did. I summarized my thoughts on it here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31458161 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31458161 I still stand by my opinion that this is malicious compliance to prevent formal Right To Repair legislation - not necessarily about the tooling (indeed, optionally providing tooling is a good move) but the fact that besides the problems mentioned in the linked comment, the actual selection of parts is minimal, hopefully for the time being.
Someone 4y ago
Browsing https://selfservicerepair.com/home https://selfservicerepair.com/home, it seems to me they do more or less exactly that (the parts sometimes are bundled with mounting screws, the manuals assume you have professional tools, and you’ll have to call them to DRM ‘register’ your new part with the other hardware. I can’t find the requirement to rent this set of tools on that site (disclaimer: I can’t fully emulate a sale, as the site asks for an IMEI, and I don’t have a device for which they sell parts) So, from my browsing, renting the tools seems optional.
NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
>Apple can trivially comply with Right To Repair by just selling parts, documentation and any software needed to pair new parts. ... which they do! It's $69.00 for the iPhone 13 mini battery or $70.99 for the kit which also includes a replacement display adhesive and a set of spare security screws. In both cases, you can get $24.15 credit when you return your old battery. You don't have to get the toolkit; you can put together your own tools and do whatever crazy shit you want with a hairdryer or whatever. Are you seriously saying that Apple's decision to both sell and rent (on what I'm pretty sure must be a loss-making basis) the tools that they themselves use for the repairs is ... malicious?
- mmastrac 4y ago
  It's designed to make the process complicated and financially risky. That is the malicious part.
  - NovemberWhiskey 4y ago
    What? Let me get this clear: Apple provides no tools - you are OK with this. Apple provides optional tools, which are the ones they use - this "make[s] the process complicated and financially risky". Is that what you are saying? Can you walk me through your logic because it's escaping me. Objectively, it is a risky process to do without the right tools based on feedback from people who have actually done it on a regular basis; ref. the poster upthread here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31457776 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31457776
  - Nextgrid 4y ago
    My problem with this process is that it's a low-volume, just-in-time system where you have to order the part, do the repair and send back your old part in a limited timeframe otherwise you are overcharged, not to mention the final step of having Apple support pair the new part to your phone to disable the warnings. It's unnecessarily annoying and admin-heavy. Compare that to just buying a handful of batteries and keeping them "just in case" so you can then do the repair in your own time as needed. I currently do that but have to use grey-market parts as Apple won't sell them to me without the aforementioned restrictions.

zenexer 4y ago

> Again: cue the "Apple provided me with second-class tools that are NOT the ones they used in store and I broke my iPhone" story. Oh, I’m not complaining about the tools. If they didn’t have an ass-backwards policy that could be construed as preventing you from using the tools on anything other than an approved Apple product, I’d have a rental kit shipped to me and just pay the security deposit. Sure, I could buy the tools outright, but then I wouldn’t get the cool cases, and the policy still seems to imply the tools are only to be used for Apple products. Again, this is great for repair shops. These are great tools at reasonable prices that are meant to last. But y’know what would be even better? Making a battery that you can replace with a fingernail.