4 ms·

I think maybe you have somewhat idealized conception of the state of Ukraine before the invasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine https://e

by zosima 4y ago

I think maybe you have somewhat idealized conception of the state of Ukraine before the invasion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_in_Ukraine Both Ukraine and Russia have been dominated by a set of oligarchs since the fall of the Soviet Union, who have amassed an extreme amount of wealth and therefore, because of weak laws and bribery, control their respective countries to an extreme degree. I don't see why anyone on the left, should prefer one of the sets of oligarchs to the other.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
... I have no such "idealized conception." Jeez, it's almost like one could be opposed to both autocracies and still support resistance against the Russian state. Like the actual left (or what's left of it) in Ukraine (and Russia) are. A good resource is https://lefteast.org/ https://lefteast.org/
TheRealDunkirk 4y ago
Since the crippling of unions and the deregulation of many economic sectors under Reagan, now ossified by the Citizens United decision, I could replace "Ukraine and Russia" with "Democrats and Republicans" and say (almost) exactly the same words about the US.
zarzavat 4y ago
People on the left should stand up for the people getting their homes bombed. It shouldn’t matter if it is America bombing Afghans or Russia bombing Ukrainians. Unfortunately some people will only stand up for one or the other.
thatjoeoverthr 4y ago
All of that is true. The problem is that both sets of oligarchs are currently fine; Russia is attacking everyone -else- in Ukraine. I know people personally who are displaced. There are refugees in what used to be my personal office. The Russian oligarchs are doing this unilaterally, and can stop any time. The west is sending only gadgets, not men, and regular Ukrainians are fighting the fight. (They too can stop any time, but it’s their country.) While I recognize why Russians are upset, they could have handled this better.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by zosima 4y ago

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

... I have no such "idealized conception." Jeez, it's almost like one could be opposed to both autocracies and still support resistance against the Russian state. Like the actual left (or what's left of it) in Ukraine (and Russia) are. A good resource is https://lefteast.org/ https://lefteast.org/

TheRealDunkirk 4y ago

Since the crippling of unions and the deregulation of many economic sectors under Reagan, now ossified by the Citizens United decision, I could replace "Ukraine and Russia" with "Democrats and Republicans" and say (almost) exactly the same words about the US.

zarzavat 4y ago

People on the left should stand up for the people getting their homes bombed. It shouldn’t matter if it is America bombing Afghans or Russia bombing Ukrainians. Unfortunately some people will only stand up for one or the other.

thatjoeoverthr 4y ago

All of that is true. The problem is that both sets of oligarchs are currently fine; Russia is attacking everyone -else- in Ukraine. I know people personally who are displaced. There are refugees in what used to be my personal office. The Russian oligarchs are doing this unilaterally, and can stop any time. The west is sending only gadgets, not men, and regular Ukrainians are fighting the fight. (They too can stop any time, but it’s their country.) While I recognize why Russians are upset, they could have handled this better.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]