5 ms·

I'm surprised. I didn't read or hear what Noam Chomsky says, but judging by his points brought up by the article, he is just repeating Putin's propaganda. He ev

by ordu 4y ago

I'm surprised. I didn't read or hear what Noam Chomsky says, but judging by his points brought up by the article, he is just repeating Putin's propaganda. He even uses their methods of changing topic from an uncomfortable one to a "US is no better then Russia". I'm surprised, because I thought that Chomsky was mostly intelligent person. I've heard that he had very strange political views, but to just repeat Putin seems to manifest his lack of an ability to think for himself.

cmrdporcupine 4y ago
What I've seen from Chomsky so far didn't actually seem to really reflect what I saw in this letter. He was mainly doing what Chomsky always does which is point out the crimes and hypocrisies of various western governments. But he's always been fairly consistently against authoritarian governments and dictators. I'll have to go digging to see exactly what this letter is responding to. Some other western leftists do sound like this, though. Yanis Varoufakis did an annoying interview for example.
- marcodiego 4y ago
  > Some other western leftists do sound like this Even Lula said something similar on a Time interview recently. Brazil is very dependent on Russia's fertilizers and is a big (biggest?) food exporter. Brazilian politicians have been very careful to condemn the war while being light on Putin or the result could mean a significant rise on the price of food and even famine.
  - cmrdporcupine 4y ago
    Right what we see is a kind of world of (at least) bipolar competing imperialisms, of which the "Russian" side (roughly speaking) is less powerful but attempting to assert itself. Sergei Lavrov has tried to carve out an ideological space in which this sphere around Russia has inherited some sort of anti-colonialist sheen. But in large part it is frankly worse than "the west" in almost all respects. Lavrov talks like an anti-imperialist while actually basically being the Mouth of Sauron. The talking face of a failing autocratic petro-state.
ComradePhil 4y ago
You could try to understand what people on the ground think instead of what warmongering media tells you: https://youtu.be/i1I8SZeXGFo https://youtu.be/i1I8SZeXGFo Then, you would understand more what Chomsky is saying.
- reneherse 4y ago
  Russian propaganda.
  - ComradePhil 4y ago
    Locals celebrating independence on the streets is propaganda? OK.
    - reneherse 4y ago
      "Locals". Are you really so obtuse?
      - ComradePhil 4y ago
    - EB-Barrington 4y ago
      Kremlin propaganda is so poorly constructed, and yet, some people still fall for it. Source: I spent the last two years+ full time in Ukraine, much of the last decade in Ukraine. I'm not Ukrainian - I just know reality from theatre.
      - ComradePhil 4y ago
        Where did you spend time? In the Russian-majority region or in the Ukrainian majority one?
- notahacker 4y ago
  Sure, what we really need to avoid the "warmongering media" is a British RT journalist rocking up after the last defenders have surrendered to talk about how the war has turned Mariupol into a "marvellous Russian City" and interviewing the celebrating leadership of the Donetsk People's Republic talking about the Great Patriotic War...
debacle 4y ago
He is a very old man. Not to demean him but he is not what he once was.
- zoomablemind 4y ago
  >... He is a very old man. Not to demean him but he is not what he once was. He is respectfully old, but this only underscores how remarkable he is, how true to his life-long commitment of exposing the imperialist narratives and giving voice to the oppressed. However, I guess, russia's war against Ukraine presented a tough topic for him. He is undoubtedly anti-war and in support of people who suffer. Yet he cannot detach this from the fact that indeed the USA, EU, and NATO are in helping position to Ukraine. This by extension put Mr. Chomsky at odds with Ukraine's struggle, thus all the narratives so familiar from russian propaganda to justify this stance. But by all means, he's not a russia's or putin's proxy. Sadly and predictably, his views are readily weaved into this propaganda, while his name and work is largely irrelevant to most of the russia population. Ukraine remains the land where Chomsky's father was born. And the present reality is that this land is still being blown and burned on the orders of russia criminal leadership, who gives a damn about Mr. Chomsky's life-long commitment. In this case the Ukrainian people, their language and culture are the oppressed, historically! So I believe, Mr. Chomsky is on Ukraine's people side too ... just in the depths and breadth of his heart. Ukraine did not start this war, russia did. Now Ukraine needs every bit of support to withstand and hopefully prevail in this struggle to survive as people and the nation!
DSingularity 4y ago
No, you just need to pay close attention and actually understand his words. Take for example the Bosnian war. People are quick to misrepresent Chomskys views as supporting the Serbs position. He just was against actions which would escalate the conflict. And he was correct. NATO involvement spurred genocide. His points on Ukraine are nuanced. Ukrainians hate it because they want everyone to just whole-sale support them. True support of Ukraine is pushing for peace. Arming Ukraine is akin to someone encouraging a little kid to fight an older bully. All we will accomplish is the eventual hurt of the kid.
- tgv 4y ago
  NATO made the Serbs commit genocide? I can't believe that I'm reading that on HN. How did NATO "spur" the Serbs to kill 8000 Bosnian muslim men in Sebrenica exactly?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - DSingularity 4y ago
    Look, I’m not saying NATO directly made the Serbs do what they did. But you should at least read Chomskys take on the timeline of events and respond to that if you believe him to be wrong. http://goodtimesweb.org/industry-govt-agents/z-chomsky-nato-war-kosovo-apr-may-2001.html http://goodtimesweb.org/industry-govt-agents/z-chomsky-nato-...
    - tgv 4y ago
      That's not a take, that's muddying the waters. > More important, the U.S. was able to enforce its domination over the strategic Balkans region, ... A destitute Serbia remains the last holdout, probably not for long. How can you take someone seriously who writes that in the closing paragraphs, and ignores the preceding mass killings with the remark that "it wasn't really genocide, so who cares"? Anyway, the pattern "NATO made them kill" is in that article as well.
- ordu 4y ago

by ordu 4y ago

cmrdporcupine 4y ago

What I've seen from Chomsky so far didn't actually seem to really reflect what I saw in this letter. He was mainly doing what Chomsky always does which is point out the crimes and hypocrisies of various western governments. But he's always been fairly consistently against authoritarian governments and dictators. I'll have to go digging to see exactly what this letter is responding to. Some other western leftists do sound like this, though. Yanis Varoufakis did an annoying interview for example.

marcodiego 4y ago
> Some other western leftists do sound like this Even Lula said something similar on a Time interview recently. Brazil is very dependent on Russia's fertilizers and is a big (biggest?) food exporter. Brazilian politicians have been very careful to condemn the war while being light on Putin or the result could mean a significant rise on the price of food and even famine.
- cmrdporcupine 4y ago
  Right what we see is a kind of world of (at least) bipolar competing imperialisms, of which the "Russian" side (roughly speaking) is less powerful but attempting to assert itself. Sergei Lavrov has tried to carve out an ideological space in which this sphere around Russia has inherited some sort of anti-colonialist sheen. But in large part it is frankly worse than "the west" in almost all respects. Lavrov talks like an anti-imperialist while actually basically being the Mouth of Sauron. The talking face of a failing autocratic petro-state.

ComradePhil 4y ago

You could try to understand what people on the ground think instead of what warmongering media tells you: https://youtu.be/i1I8SZeXGFo https://youtu.be/i1I8SZeXGFo Then, you would understand more what Chomsky is saying.

reneherse 4y ago
Russian propaganda.
- ComradePhil 4y ago
  Locals celebrating independence on the streets is propaganda? OK.
  - reneherse 4y ago
    "Locals". Are you really so obtuse?
    - ComradePhil 4y ago
  - EB-Barrington 4y ago
    Kremlin propaganda is so poorly constructed, and yet, some people still fall for it. Source: I spent the last two years+ full time in Ukraine, much of the last decade in Ukraine. I'm not Ukrainian - I just know reality from theatre.
    - ComradePhil 4y ago
      Where did you spend time? In the Russian-majority region or in the Ukrainian majority one?
notahacker 4y ago
Sure, what we really need to avoid the "warmongering media" is a British RT journalist rocking up after the last defenders have surrendered to talk about how the war has turned Mariupol into a "marvellous Russian City" and interviewing the celebrating leadership of the Donetsk People's Republic talking about the Great Patriotic War...

debacle 4y ago

He is a very old man. Not to demean him but he is not what he once was.

zoomablemind 4y ago
>... He is a very old man. Not to demean him but he is not what he once was. He is respectfully old, but this only underscores how remarkable he is, how true to his life-long commitment of exposing the imperialist narratives and giving voice to the oppressed. However, I guess, russia's war against Ukraine presented a tough topic for him. He is undoubtedly anti-war and in support of people who suffer. Yet he cannot detach this from the fact that indeed the USA, EU, and NATO are in helping position to Ukraine. This by extension put Mr. Chomsky at odds with Ukraine's struggle, thus all the narratives so familiar from russian propaganda to justify this stance. But by all means, he's not a russia's or putin's proxy. Sadly and predictably, his views are readily weaved into this propaganda, while his name and work is largely irrelevant to most of the russia population. Ukraine remains the land where Chomsky's father was born. And the present reality is that this land is still being blown and burned on the orders of russia criminal leadership, who gives a damn about Mr. Chomsky's life-long commitment. In this case the Ukrainian people, their language and culture are the oppressed, historically! So I believe, Mr. Chomsky is on Ukraine's people side too ... just in the depths and breadth of his heart. Ukraine did not start this war, russia did. Now Ukraine needs every bit of support to withstand and hopefully prevail in this struggle to survive as people and the nation!

DSingularity 4y ago

No, you just need to pay close attention and actually understand his words. Take for example the Bosnian war. People are quick to misrepresent Chomskys views as supporting the Serbs position. He just was against actions which would escalate the conflict. And he was correct. NATO involvement spurred genocide. His points on Ukraine are nuanced. Ukrainians hate it because they want everyone to just whole-sale support them. True support of Ukraine is pushing for peace. Arming Ukraine is akin to someone encouraging a little kid to fight an older bully. All we will accomplish is the eventual hurt of the kid.

tgv 4y ago
NATO made the Serbs commit genocide? I can't believe that I'm reading that on HN. How did NATO "spur" the Serbs to kill 8000 Bosnian muslim men in Sebrenica exactly?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- DSingularity 4y ago
  Look, I’m not saying NATO directly made the Serbs do what they did. But you should at least read Chomskys take on the timeline of events and respond to that if you believe him to be wrong. http://goodtimesweb.org/industry-govt-agents/z-chomsky-nato-war-kosovo-apr-may-2001.html http://goodtimesweb.org/industry-govt-agents/z-chomsky-nato-...
  - tgv 4y ago
    That's not a take, that's muddying the waters. > More important, the U.S. was able to enforce its domination over the strategic Balkans region, ... A destitute Serbia remains the last holdout, probably not for long. How can you take someone seriously who writes that in the closing paragraphs, and ignores the preceding mass killings with the remark that "it wasn't really genocide, so who cares"? Anyway, the pattern "NATO made them kill" is in that article as well.
ordu 4y ago