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The problems that the author describes are real, but IMHO he attributes them to the wrong cause. They are not caused by efficiency per se; they are caused by th

The problems that the author describes are real, but IMHO he attributes them to the wrong cause. They are not caused by efficiency per se; they are caused by the enormous increase in the productivity of Capital relative to Labour. There has been a 'cold war' between Capital and Labour for almost 200 years now, and it seems clear to me that we are currently witnessing the final victory of Capital. As the author describes, it is now possible for one person to create an idea, build a widget (particularly if it is a software widget) and distribute that widget to the whole world, because of the vast amount of productive Capital that has been created and is available for his/her use. As hackernews readers who work in great startups know, the power of a small group of talented and committed people is astonishing in the modern world - because of the 'force multiplier' effect of Capital. So what to do? (and the answer is not to 'reduce efficiency' or eliminate public corporations, heavens) The answer is that in order to prosper, you must become a master of Capital. You must be able to use all the wondrous force-multiplier tools at your disposal. If you cannot, if you are rather dependent on your Labour to earn your crust, then in today's world you are going to be a peasant. This might be hard to hear (although probably not for HN readers) but it is true. Of course, being able to use all this Capital requires education, and so at society's level, the solution lies in massive boosts to education funding. It seems blindingly self-evident to me that in our Capital-dependent world, tertiary education (university or vocational) should be provided free for all, paid for by the state. In fact, education is becoming more expensive globally; this trend is extremely pernicious, is causing massive problems and should be remedied as fast as possible. The cost of this education provision is irrelevant - it is an investment that will repay itself many, many times over - and in any case it is well within the developed world's grasp. The total cost to the US of the Iraq war is at least $2 trillion. How many college educations would that have paid for?

ThomPete 15y ago
The owner of capital in a knowledge society is those who have information. The "workers" in the information industry are the owners of their own means of production, namely their knowledge. So I would slightly adjust your answer and say, it's a matter of becoming the master of your own means of production which means. Educate yourself and learn as much as possible. Every time an employer fires you or you move somewhere else you are taking your capital with you (the means of production) But I would caution against talking about education. It's not about education it's about knowledge. Knowledge which can be acquired in so many other ways than education. In fact I would say the less your knowledge is based on education the more unique your knowledge is and thus the more valuable you are.
- JVirissimo 15y ago
  I think by "education" you mean "schooling". The conflation of these two concepts causes all kinds of mischief.
  - ThomPete 15y ago
    Well by education i mean to educate yourself within the current school system. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just that it will most likely not be what makes your knowledge unique. But yeah I see that all sorts of confusion can arise.
  - michaelfeathers 15y ago
    Yes. At the very least we need schools which acknowledge and don't work at cross purposes with autodidacticism.
jwblackwell 15y ago
But capital in itself isn't productive. What you saying is you can just produce/distribute/market a product for less than you could previously. I.e. your money goes further. In order for this to be the case there must be reasons why this capital is so much more productive - one could then easily argue efficiency and/or cheaper labour. I agree with you on many levels, especially on education. But I can't really compare Capital and labour in the same way you have - it's not either or.
brador 15y ago
And where are 20 year olds to aquire capital from? Who gets the greater % return on investment...the capital owners. Hence, Rich get richer. Poor and young get poorer, work harder for smaller crusts. The economic cycle repeats. Just faster. Thanks to automation.
- rdl 15y ago
  Capital's multiplier effect includes all society's wealth available to you -- you're richer because you can buy aluminum foil for $1 a roll when it used to cost more than gold; richer due to COTS computers available at white and glass stores worldwide; richer due to the Internet; and richer due to open source software. Even a poor person today has access to potentially far more labor-amplification than anyone in the past.
  - brador 15y ago
    Let me just say, as a fellow white middle-class guy, you can't eat aluminium foil or COTS computers available at white and glass stores worldwide. Food prices are a larger percentage of average income than since records began. I would disagree with your definition of "wealth" on those grounds alone.
    - csomar 15y ago
      I think he means you have easier access to means of productions. Which means you can produce and distribute, while in the past it's hard/almost impossible. A good example is a guy that made a cover for the iPad. This wouldn't be possible if the means of production are not accessible.
    - keenerd 15y ago
      It is fairly easy for one person to live off of $20 of food a week. I say this as someone who has done it in a major east coast city, without ever clipping coupons, buying in bulk or buying on sale. You can feed yourself for less than 1 hour of minimum wage a day. At no point in history has food been this cheap. edit: Just in case this becomes a thift-fight, my $20 is relatively high as I was eating +2500 calories a day (running and bicycling a lot). And most of the time I'd be under $15, but the remainder would be spent on treats.
angus77 15y ago
I agree with a lot of what you've written, except for one of my favourite topics that you've stumbled across--- the idea that increasing education funding will result in more education. I've pointed out a couple of times on hn that Canadians spend about $3000 less per student per year than Americans, and yet Canadian students consistently rank higher on average than American students.
- ctdonath 15y ago
  Spending isn't the problem. Students unwilling to work is. Most who fail my classes just don't try.
  - duk3luk3 15y ago
    If that is the problem, how can the USA as a country change that?
    - akshaykarthik 15y ago
      One thing I've noticed is that education in the US seems to be lax until high school. At high school, the teachers ramp up the work that the students have and, because this increase in work is sudden, the pressure becomes more on getting the work done and turned in rather than actually learning the material. The problem with this is that this attitude of getting the work done vs learning the material hurts each student in college. I agree that students are lax in college however, in my opinion, it is simply a reaction to being unable to cope with the increased responsibilities and pressures (not only academic but financial and social as well) Perhaps one solution is to slowly increase the difficulty of elementary and middle schools. The goal would be to improve the work ethic in this country. Another solution is to make it a necessity to perform well. In many colleges, the final grade is the only one that matters and this leads to students cramming before a final and then promptly forgetting the material. I don't see the work ethic in most American students I see in my Indian peers and my Chinese and Japanese friends.
    - ctdonath 15y ago
      By letting them FAIL. By making clear that if you have the brain & brawn to work, and you don't produce, your needs WON'T be met by compulsory redistribution of the wealth of those who did. By telling (and enforcing) students that if they do not achieve the performance standards set then they will not, because they CANNOT, take on more advanced material. It's tragic that so many students get so far before they experience the message "if you don't do the work you won't pass the course."
yummyfajitas 15y ago
Could you explain how "massive boosts to education funding" would solve this problem? I'm sure you could boost the number of degrees held by this method, but why do you believe you would create more "masters of capital"? Also, you do realize that if you subsidize something more, you are likely to increase demand for it and raise prices further, right?
- yequalsx 15y ago
  It isn't always true that subsidizing something increases its demand and thus its price. So it must be argued that this would be so in this particular instance. By increasing higher education spending, while limiting the number of people who get in, we could create a system of free higher education. Such people, being released from the present system of debt burden when they graduate, might contribute more to economic growth. It might not work out that way but it could. I have no data either way except to say that in the U.S. the so called greatest generation mostly had free higher education. Of course increasing higher education funding and spending it unwisely wouldn't be of much benefit.
  - tokenadult 15y ago
    while limiting the number of people who get in How will we limit the number of people who get in? On what criterion? One of the amazing things about the United States and several other countries with a mixed non-system of higher education, including both "public" (government-operated) and "private" (independently operated, but often heavily tax-subsidized) institutions of higher education is that almost anyone can get a higher education. Some get a higher education by having good credentials, and others get a higher education by having money, but almost anybody who desires to pursue higher education can pursue. By contrast, countries with "free" (list price near zero for students, because of taxpayer subsidies) systems of higher education usually have worse access to higher education and lower quality universities besides. Which system do you think offers the better trade-offs to the whole society? After edit: the current university student I know best has so far not had to spend out of pocket to enroll in his degree program. He attends a state "flagship" university with a strong program in his intended major of computer science, and through the university's policies on need-based and "merit" scholarships, including the National Merit Scholarship, he has had an essentially full ride (tuition, fees, room, and board expenses) to date, while being able to find lucrative summer work as an intern at a local company. There are already some good paths to higher education for the young person who works hard preparing academically while of high school age and who pursues a major with significant problem-solving value in the free enterprise economy.
csomar 15y ago
You are here looking for "Super People". Young 20 something, learning and working hard in large scale problems. Great. They might make it big, and that's what we are looking for. But don't confuse this with education. They'll educate themselves, and they'll pick the things/fields that they need and learn them better than you can do in a college. They'll figure out, they have super minds. But you don't have lots of Super People. Fine. Make use of the ones you have, attract them from others countries, and build an environment that can generate them. That's all. Now the guy making $100K/month selling his iPhone app, is probably in need of someone to do something for him. And he can afford to pay him generously. Home cleaning, food cooking, Home repair, Real Estate. He pays generously. So the other person benefits from this pay increase. Unemployment problems solved. Yes, there will be a guy making $200K/month, and other one struggling to make $3K/month. However, the poor guy is already at benefit. He has access to an intelligent car, phone, Internet services, TV... that wouldn't be accessible without that super mind.
- sleight42 15y ago
  But the "poor guy" won't be able to afford most of these wonders of technology because he has been obviated by market efficiencies...
  - nate_meurer 15y ago
    I think you have this backward. The main purpose of those market efficiencies is to get people to buy more shit by making said shit cheaper. This applies to electronic devices more than anything else. I know a lot of people in the lower income brackets. I know literally nobody who doesn't have a cell phone.
Tycho 15y ago
But wait, education is pretty much free already. You can watch all of Stanford's lectures online. You just don't get a piece of paper saying you've been to Stanford. But that certification does not seem relevant to your point.
rubashov 15y ago
Businesses are investing capital in automation rather than hiring people in large part because laws artificially inflate the cost of labor. The government keeps making it worse with things like obamacare. I'm pretty sure CVS would rather have plenty of cashiers rather than self-checkout machines, but hiring them has become uneconomical despite very high unemployment.
- msutherl 15y ago
  I totally don't understand this perspective. I use automated checkout at every opportunity – despite the fact that it sucks – because the sooner people never have to suffer the indignity of being a cashier again, the better! Repetitive, dehumanizing jobs are a means to an end for those with no privilege. The challenge of this century is to find better means to that end.
  - queensnake 15y ago
    You and I cancel each other out - I always try to use a human checker. > Repetitive, dehumanizing jobs are a means to an end for those with no privilege. Well that's better than /no/ means to the end, of living. > The challenge of this century is to find better means to that end. We haven't found it yet, have we? So in the meantime you should be nice, and support humans.

ThomPete 15y ago

The owner of capital in a knowledge society is those who have information. The "workers" in the information industry are the owners of their own means of production, namely their knowledge. So I would slightly adjust your answer and say, it's a matter of becoming the master of your own means of production which means. Educate yourself and learn as much as possible. Every time an employer fires you or you move somewhere else you are taking your capital with you (the means of production) But I would caution against talking about education. It's not about education it's about knowledge. Knowledge which can be acquired in so many other ways than education. In fact I would say the less your knowledge is based on education the more unique your knowledge is and thus the more valuable you are.

JVirissimo 15y ago
I think by "education" you mean "schooling". The conflation of these two concepts causes all kinds of mischief.
- ThomPete 15y ago
  Well by education i mean to educate yourself within the current school system. Not that there is anything wrong with that, just that it will most likely not be what makes your knowledge unique. But yeah I see that all sorts of confusion can arise.
- michaelfeathers 15y ago
  Yes. At the very least we need schools which acknowledge and don't work at cross purposes with autodidacticism.

jwblackwell 15y ago

But capital in itself isn't productive. What you saying is you can just produce/distribute/market a product for less than you could previously. I.e. your money goes further. In order for this to be the case there must be reasons why this capital is so much more productive - one could then easily argue efficiency and/or cheaper labour. I agree with you on many levels, especially on education. But I can't really compare Capital and labour in the same way you have - it's not either or.

brador 15y ago

And where are 20 year olds to aquire capital from? Who gets the greater % return on investment...the capital owners. Hence, Rich get richer. Poor and young get poorer, work harder for smaller crusts. The economic cycle repeats. Just faster. Thanks to automation.

rdl 15y ago
Capital's multiplier effect includes all society's wealth available to you -- you're richer because you can buy aluminum foil for $1 a roll when it used to cost more than gold; richer due to COTS computers available at white and glass stores worldwide; richer due to the Internet; and richer due to open source software. Even a poor person today has access to potentially far more labor-amplification than anyone in the past.
- brador 15y ago
  Let me just say, as a fellow white middle-class guy, you can't eat aluminium foil or COTS computers available at white and glass stores worldwide. Food prices are a larger percentage of average income than since records began. I would disagree with your definition of "wealth" on those grounds alone.
  - csomar 15y ago
    I think he means you have easier access to means of productions. Which means you can produce and distribute, while in the past it's hard/almost impossible. A good example is a guy that made a cover for the iPad. This wouldn't be possible if the means of production are not accessible.
  - keenerd 15y ago
    It is fairly easy for one person to live off of $20 of food a week. I say this as someone who has done it in a major east coast city, without ever clipping coupons, buying in bulk or buying on sale. You can feed yourself for less than 1 hour of minimum wage a day. At no point in history has food been this cheap. edit: Just in case this becomes a thift-fight, my $20 is relatively high as I was eating +2500 calories a day (running and bicycling a lot). And most of the time I'd be under $15, but the remainder would be spent on treats.

angus77 15y ago

I agree with a lot of what you've written, except for one of my favourite topics that you've stumbled across--- the idea that increasing education funding will result in more education. I've pointed out a couple of times on hn that Canadians spend about $3000 less per student per year than Americans, and yet Canadian students consistently rank higher on average than American students.

ctdonath 15y ago
Spending isn't the problem. Students unwilling to work is. Most who fail my classes just don't try.
- duk3luk3 15y ago
  If that is the problem, how can the USA as a country change that?
  - akshaykarthik 15y ago
    One thing I've noticed is that education in the US seems to be lax until high school. At high school, the teachers ramp up the work that the students have and, because this increase in work is sudden, the pressure becomes more on getting the work done and turned in rather than actually learning the material. The problem with this is that this attitude of getting the work done vs learning the material hurts each student in college. I agree that students are lax in college however, in my opinion, it is simply a reaction to being unable to cope with the increased responsibilities and pressures (not only academic but financial and social as well) Perhaps one solution is to slowly increase the difficulty of elementary and middle schools. The goal would be to improve the work ethic in this country. Another solution is to make it a necessity to perform well. In many colleges, the final grade is the only one that matters and this leads to students cramming before a final and then promptly forgetting the material. I don't see the work ethic in most American students I see in my Indian peers and my Chinese and Japanese friends.
  - ctdonath 15y ago
    By letting them FAIL. By making clear that if you have the brain & brawn to work, and you don't produce, your needs WON'T be met by compulsory redistribution of the wealth of those who did. By telling (and enforcing) students that if they do not achieve the performance standards set then they will not, because they CANNOT, take on more advanced material. It's tragic that so many students get so far before they experience the message "if you don't do the work you won't pass the course."

yummyfajitas 15y ago

Could you explain how "massive boosts to education funding" would solve this problem? I'm sure you could boost the number of degrees held by this method, but why do you believe you would create more "masters of capital"? Also, you do realize that if you subsidize something more, you are likely to increase demand for it and raise prices further, right?

yequalsx 15y ago
It isn't always true that subsidizing something increases its demand and thus its price. So it must be argued that this would be so in this particular instance. By increasing higher education spending, while limiting the number of people who get in, we could create a system of free higher education. Such people, being released from the present system of debt burden when they graduate, might contribute more to economic growth. It might not work out that way but it could. I have no data either way except to say that in the U.S. the so called greatest generation mostly had free higher education. Of course increasing higher education funding and spending it unwisely wouldn't be of much benefit.
- tokenadult 15y ago
  while limiting the number of people who get in How will we limit the number of people who get in? On what criterion? One of the amazing things about the United States and several other countries with a mixed non-system of higher education, including both "public" (government-operated) and "private" (independently operated, but often heavily tax-subsidized) institutions of higher education is that almost anyone can get a higher education. Some get a higher education by having good credentials, and others get a higher education by having money, but almost anybody who desires to pursue higher education can pursue. By contrast, countries with "free" (list price near zero for students, because of taxpayer subsidies) systems of higher education usually have worse access to higher education and lower quality universities besides. Which system do you think offers the better trade-offs to the whole society? After edit: the current university student I know best has so far not had to spend out of pocket to enroll in his degree program. He attends a state "flagship" university with a strong program in his intended major of computer science, and through the university's policies on need-based and "merit" scholarships, including the National Merit Scholarship, he has had an essentially full ride (tuition, fees, room, and board expenses) to date, while being able to find lucrative summer work as an intern at a local company. There are already some good paths to higher education for the young person who works hard preparing academically while of high school age and who pursues a major with significant problem-solving value in the free enterprise economy.

csomar 15y ago

You are here looking for "Super People". Young 20 something, learning and working hard in large scale problems. Great. They might make it big, and that's what we are looking for. But don't confuse this with education. They'll educate themselves, and they'll pick the things/fields that they need and learn them better than you can do in a college. They'll figure out, they have super minds. But you don't have lots of Super People. Fine. Make use of the ones you have, attract them from others countries, and build an environment that can generate them. That's all. Now the guy making $100K/month selling his iPhone app, is probably in need of someone to do something for him. And he can afford to pay him generously. Home cleaning, food cooking, Home repair, Real Estate. He pays generously. So the other person benefits from this pay increase. Unemployment problems solved. Yes, there will be a guy making $200K/month, and other one struggling to make $3K/month. However, the poor guy is already at benefit. He has access to an intelligent car, phone, Internet services, TV... that wouldn't be accessible without that super mind.

sleight42 15y ago
But the "poor guy" won't be able to afford most of these wonders of technology because he has been obviated by market efficiencies...
- nate_meurer 15y ago
  I think you have this backward. The main purpose of those market efficiencies is to get people to buy more shit by making said shit cheaper. This applies to electronic devices more than anything else. I know a lot of people in the lower income brackets. I know literally nobody who doesn't have a cell phone.

Tycho 15y ago

But wait, education is pretty much free already. You can watch all of Stanford's lectures online. You just don't get a piece of paper saying you've been to Stanford. But that certification does not seem relevant to your point.

rubashov 15y ago

Businesses are investing capital in automation rather than hiring people in large part because laws artificially inflate the cost of labor. The government keeps making it worse with things like obamacare. I'm pretty sure CVS would rather have plenty of cashiers rather than self-checkout machines, but hiring them has become uneconomical despite very high unemployment.

msutherl 15y ago
I totally don't understand this perspective. I use automated checkout at every opportunity – despite the fact that it sucks – because the sooner people never have to suffer the indignity of being a cashier again, the better! Repetitive, dehumanizing jobs are a means to an end for those with no privilege. The challenge of this century is to find better means to that end.
- queensnake 15y ago
  You and I cancel each other out - I always try to use a human checker. > Repetitive, dehumanizing jobs are a means to an end for those with no privilege. Well that's better than /no/ means to the end, of living. > The challenge of this century is to find better means to that end. We haven't found it yet, have we? So in the meantime you should be nice, and support humans.