6 ms·

How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement,

How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. I'm kind of tired of the commodification of anything and everything. Communities aren't just supposed to be these bureaucratically labelled abstract co-locations of people mediated by a billion different services, you're supposed to actually try to get to know your neighbors. Learning how to listen, trying to teach how to listen, and being brave enough to do both is incredibly enriching. With the rise in remote work, that should be easier than ever. Why don't we try to sort ourselves into locations where we have optimal mixes in personalities/interests for solid communities of all ages and put in the work required to understand and relate to each other better.

9530jh9054ven 4y ago
Perhaps but I would surmise that the people that would benefit from being in those communities would naturally form irregardless of the distractions of commodified companionship. But that ignores the ones that unwilling or incapable of joining into the communities you describe. Wouldn't this substitution of a human connection be of positive benefit to all involved then?
- didericis 4y ago
  I don't think companionship can be commodified, and I think any attempt to do so would be the equivalent of an opiate. While there may be specific contexts where it could have utility, I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for those lacking the initiative or will to socialize, and should try to diminish a lot of the status barriers and animosities preventing such socialization. We've had many decades of psychological and behavioral science now. Instead of using it to get people to click buttons for hours and talk to a screen, maybe we could figure out how to use it to encourage healthier behavior.
  - 9530jh9054ven 4y ago
    I don't know about actual companionship, but I'd say that one could commercialize the facade of one. Youtube and Twitch's live streaming mechanisms certainly seem to push it; a few dollars to briefly interact and hold the attention of the streamer's attention. At the far end I'd wonder if even prostitution could arguably fit under that idea of commercializing intimacy. > I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for those lacking the initiative or will to socialize, and should try to diminish a lot of the status barriers and animosities preventing such socialization. It's a noble idea, but begs the question why a community would want to have responsibility to individuals that they may not want to have in their presence in the first place. ... Amusingly it also it just now occurs to me now that what you describe sounds similar religion, specifically to the the Abrahamic faiths and their derivatives.
    - didericis 4y ago
      Yes, there are ways to try to commercialize intimacy, but they're horrible and don't actually achieve it. > It's a noble idea, but begs the question why a community would want to have responsibility to individuals that they may not want to have in their presence in the first place. If you help build up the people around you into better people, and get to know them, they tend to reciprocate. It can take a very long time, not everyone reciprocates equally, they may be coming from a very different place that's hard to understand, and it can be painful. But it's intrinsically rewarding to pursue the companionship of others genuinely, as hurt as you might get doing so. What you gain when you're honest makes up for it. Trying to do so in the proper manner takes constant reevaluation and work, but we're not here to just sit in front of a computer and buy stuff, we're here to interact with those around us and try to get as close as we can to fulfillment.
  - Kiro 4y ago
    If I lack willingness it's because I don't want to. Why are you trying to force me to do something I don't want? Just let me have the AI companion I long for.
Tenoke 4y ago
>How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. How about we don't ignore things that can help actual people and leave them worse off just because in theory there are also nicer sounding solutions.
- didericis 4y ago
  I'm not sure I'm interpreting you correctly, but if you're claiming what I'm talking about is just theoretical, real life communities have existed throughout the entirety of our species. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for companion AIs, I just think it's horrible to consider them as anything other than a narcotic. They might work as a replacement for companionship in tragic situations where there are no other options, but there are 7 billion people on the planet. I don't see how it's impractical to encourage people to hang out with each other.
  - Tenoke 4y ago
    Real life communities have existed yet we still have lonely people so suggesting we dont work on a solution that helps them because those exist seems like cruelty borne out of idealism. >I don't see how it's impractical to encourage people to hang out with each other. You are now writing as if you just promoted communities while your original comment I replied to specifically started with 'How about we not do that'.
    - didericis 4y ago
      My original comment was advocating we not create companion AIs and try to substitute real companionship with robots, and I was in fact trying to promote the creation of real communities.
  - panaffa 4y ago
    I agree with the sentiment, but tbh a lot of people suffer alone on this planet and designing societal structures to serve absolutely everyone's emotional needs would be impossible. An AI would be perfect for all the misfits, elderly, loners, disabled, "ugly," outcasts, etc, right?

9530jh9054ven 4y ago

Perhaps but I would surmise that the people that would benefit from being in those communities would naturally form irregardless of the distractions of commodified companionship. But that ignores the ones that unwilling or incapable of joining into the communities you describe. Wouldn't this substitution of a human connection be of positive benefit to all involved then?

didericis 4y ago
I don't think companionship can be commodified, and I think any attempt to do so would be the equivalent of an opiate. While there may be specific contexts where it could have utility, I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for those lacking the initiative or will to socialize, and should try to diminish a lot of the status barriers and animosities preventing such socialization. We've had many decades of psychological and behavioral science now. Instead of using it to get people to click buttons for hours and talk to a screen, maybe we could figure out how to use it to encourage healthier behavior.
- 9530jh9054ven 4y ago
  I don't know about actual companionship, but I'd say that one could commercialize the facade of one. Youtube and Twitch's live streaming mechanisms certainly seem to push it; a few dollars to briefly interact and hold the attention of the streamer's attention. At the far end I'd wonder if even prostitution could arguably fit under that idea of commercializing intimacy. > I think it's far healthier to encourage those who lack the inclination or willingness to join communities to do so. That's why I mentioned leadership. I think we have a responsibility to give lots of opportunities and encouragement for those lacking the initiative or will to socialize, and should try to diminish a lot of the status barriers and animosities preventing such socialization. It's a noble idea, but begs the question why a community would want to have responsibility to individuals that they may not want to have in their presence in the first place. ... Amusingly it also it just now occurs to me now that what you describe sounds similar religion, specifically to the the Abrahamic faiths and their derivatives.
  - didericis 4y ago
    Yes, there are ways to try to commercialize intimacy, but they're horrible and don't actually achieve it. > It's a noble idea, but begs the question why a community would want to have responsibility to individuals that they may not want to have in their presence in the first place. If you help build up the people around you into better people, and get to know them, they tend to reciprocate. It can take a very long time, not everyone reciprocates equally, they may be coming from a very different place that's hard to understand, and it can be painful. But it's intrinsically rewarding to pursue the companionship of others genuinely, as hurt as you might get doing so. What you gain when you're honest makes up for it. Trying to do so in the proper manner takes constant reevaluation and work, but we're not here to just sit in front of a computer and buy stuff, we're here to interact with those around us and try to get as close as we can to fulfillment.
- Kiro 4y ago
  If I lack willingness it's because I don't want to. Why are you trying to force me to do something I don't want? Just let me have the AI companion I long for.

Tenoke 4y ago

>How about we not do that and try to actually cultivate real life communities and families through more leadership, planned activities, persistent encouragement, etc. How about we don't ignore things that can help actual people and leave them worse off just because in theory there are also nicer sounding solutions.

didericis 4y ago
I'm not sure I'm interpreting you correctly, but if you're claiming what I'm talking about is just theoretical, real life communities have existed throughout the entirety of our species. That doesn't mean there isn't a place for companion AIs, I just think it's horrible to consider them as anything other than a narcotic. They might work as a replacement for companionship in tragic situations where there are no other options, but there are 7 billion people on the planet. I don't see how it's impractical to encourage people to hang out with each other.
- Tenoke 4y ago
  Real life communities have existed yet we still have lonely people so suggesting we dont work on a solution that helps them because those exist seems like cruelty borne out of idealism. >I don't see how it's impractical to encourage people to hang out with each other. You are now writing as if you just promoted communities while your original comment I replied to specifically started with 'How about we not do that'.
  - didericis 4y ago
    My original comment was advocating we not create companion AIs and try to substitute real companionship with robots, and I was in fact trying to promote the creation of real communities.
- panaffa 4y ago
  I agree with the sentiment, but tbh a lot of people suffer alone on this planet and designing societal structures to serve absolutely everyone's emotional needs would be impossible. An AI would be perfect for all the misfits, elderly, loners, disabled, "ugly," outcasts, etc, right?