5 ms·

Also of note is that most transmission so far appears to have been through male on male sex > Another puzzle is why almost all of the case clusters include men

Also of note is that most transmission so far appears to have been through male on male sex > Another puzzle is why almost all of the case clusters include men aged 20–50, many of whom are gay, bisexual and have sex with men (GBMSM). That means it's probably less contagious if it requires anal sex to transmit.

ruined 4y ago
it's worth noting that gay men practice many kinds of interaction that aren't anal sex, and the article does not at all suggest that anal sex was the route of transmission.
- version_five 4y ago
  I'm happy to see this unflagged, this is a useful caveat and certainly appropriate to add to the discussion
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    - xupybd 4y ago
      It's a technical point on the transmission vector of a new disease. HN encourages discussion that fuels curiosity. I'm very curious about this outbreak, especially while we're in an existing pandemic.
    - yarg 4y ago
      It's literally in the posting guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html): Hacker News Guidelines What to Submit On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity
IAmEveryone 4y ago
It doesn't require anal sex, it requires prolonged skin-on-skin contact. The factor that makes gay men overrepresented among the current cases is likely to be the number of different sex partners, plus possibly a higher rate of detection because that community has been on high alert for a few days now.
- jimmygrapes 4y ago
  - armitron 4y ago
    - Clampower 4y ago
      I’m sorry but it’s the way we make love.
    - junek 4y ago
      I thought this kind of primitive thinking was left behind by now.
  - washadjeffmad 4y ago
    The top comment was misleading. Of the number of people who practice anal sex, some of them are male. Of those, some are gay. Not all gay men practice anal sex. Anal sex does not require a penis, and it does not imply bare sex organ contact. A better classifier would be "prostate stimulation" or "prostate orgasm", which all males can experiences and does not imply a particular sexuality. My point is that there are far fewer power bottoms and gay men who want or enjoy another's penis in their anus than popular media suggests. Also, being gay doesn't imply indiscriminate sexual promiscuity. People who are that way will have sex with others regardless of their or their partners' sexes. Gay men are at higher risk of and when encountering these people because of smaller partner pools in any given area.
retrac 4y ago
It may be showing up there because a portion of gay men are quite promiscuous. (Sorry, I'm not sure how to put it politely, even as a gay man.) There's not really a heterosexual equivalent to the gay sauna/bathhouse. It has shown up in populations of men who have attended such gay venues, as in the Portugal and Spanish outbreaks. [1] This does not automatically imply it requires anal sex, or even particularly favours anal sex as a vector. Anal sex would obviously count as close contact, of course. But the massages, and hand-genital, and oral-genital contact common in such venues (more so than anal sex, probably) would fit the transmission profile of monkeypox, too. [1] https://nationalpost.com/pmn/health-pmn/spain-monkeypox-cases-tally-reaches-31-mostly-linked-to-sauna https://nationalpost.com/pmn/health-pmn/spain-monkeypox-case...
Proven 4y ago
dmckeon 4y ago
Reading these comments strongly reminds me of the early confusion and moral panic of about 1981-1982, when reports of something called GrID began. The conflation of infection vectors, susceptible populations, and behaviors helped cause years of delay in public health response. Let’s not make exactly those same mistakes 40 years later.
arisAlexis 4y ago
It's worth noting that multiple outbreaks in several countries at the same time in gay communities without all of them attending the same parties should be such a rare occurrence other options should be considered.
- TechBro8615 4y ago
  Yes, it sounds like there are multiple disconnected infection clusters, with the assumption of a similar mode of transmission in each. (I’m obviously inferring this based on limited thin evidence.) Consider a hypothetical autocratic regime with a history of criminalizing sexuality, committing human rights violations, and researching biological weapons. If their military felt it was time to deploy an airborne virus within enemy population centers, wouldn’t it make sense to do so simultaneously? And why wouldn’t this regime release it in a class of location that create plausible deniability, maligns a population historically persecuted by the regime, and foments societal conflict in the enemy? Personally, given the implications, I’m hoping this warfare proves to be more informational than biological.
  - arisAlexis 4y ago
    I would add to your fictional regime that it would have already used chemical and nuclear agents to poison people outside their country.
  - mburee 4y ago
    You're obviously implying that the US did it
atkailash 4y ago
wildylion 4y ago
Disclaimer: I'm a bi guy and am pretty okay with any kind of consentuous, safe sex, but (butt?!)... Oh man that's loaded. Why does everybody always pigeonhole male on male sex together with anal? Not everybody is doing it, and really, why would you associate (see what I did here?) monkeypox with ass? Mucous membranes are mucous membranes, and besides that you can't deduce anything without further information on how it transmits. And after all, anal is a bit like Java, works with all genders. Pretty lame-ass logic here.
- stuntkite 4y ago
  Not quite the discussion I was thinking I'd see here but I've been learning a lot more about the early HIV years. I'm straight leaning but have spent most of my life in gay circles. The health issues and the misinformation and fear of gay lifestyles outside but also inside of gay communities makes clarity so difficult and hard to depersonalize enough to manage safety protocols. Also, when the way someone loves has a high potential to kill them in exotic ways.... people get weird. Groups of people get nasty. Thank you for your well written humorous point here.
mateo1 4y ago
I wonder if hiv is related. Has there been any information on whether the individuals have been infected at some point in their lives or are undergoing treatment for it?

ruined 4y ago

it's worth noting that gay men practice many kinds of interaction that aren't anal sex, and the article does not at all suggest that anal sex was the route of transmission.

version_five 4y ago
I'm happy to see this unflagged, this is a useful caveat and certainly appropriate to add to the discussion
- londons_explore 4y ago
  - xupybd 4y ago
    It's a technical point on the transmission vector of a new disease. HN encourages discussion that fuels curiosity. I'm very curious about this outbreak, especially while we're in an existing pandemic.
  - yarg 4y ago
    It's literally in the posting guidelines (https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html): Hacker News Guidelines What to Submit On-Topic: Anything that good hackers would find interesting. That includes more than hacking and startups. If you had to reduce it to a sentence, the answer might be: anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity

IAmEveryone 4y ago

It doesn't require anal sex, it requires prolonged skin-on-skin contact. The factor that makes gay men overrepresented among the current cases is likely to be the number of different sex partners, plus possibly a higher rate of detection because that community has been on high alert for a few days now.

jimmygrapes 4y ago
- armitron 4y ago
  - Clampower 4y ago
    I’m sorry but it’s the way we make love.
  - junek 4y ago
    I thought this kind of primitive thinking was left behind by now.
- washadjeffmad 4y ago
  The top comment was misleading. Of the number of people who practice anal sex, some of them are male. Of those, some are gay. Not all gay men practice anal sex. Anal sex does not require a penis, and it does not imply bare sex organ contact. A better classifier would be "prostate stimulation" or "prostate orgasm", which all males can experiences and does not imply a particular sexuality. My point is that there are far fewer power bottoms and gay men who want or enjoy another's penis in their anus than popular media suggests. Also, being gay doesn't imply indiscriminate sexual promiscuity. People who are that way will have sex with others regardless of their or their partners' sexes. Gay men are at higher risk of and when encountering these people because of smaller partner pools in any given area.

retrac 4y ago

It may be showing up there because a portion of gay men are quite promiscuous. (Sorry, I'm not sure how to put it politely, even as a gay man.) There's not really a heterosexual equivalent to the gay sauna/bathhouse. It has shown up in populations of men who have attended such gay venues, as in the Portugal and Spanish outbreaks. [1] This does not automatically imply it requires anal sex, or even particularly favours anal sex as a vector. Anal sex would obviously count as close contact, of course. But the massages, and hand-genital, and oral-genital contact common in such venues (more so than anal sex, probably) would fit the transmission profile of monkeypox, too. [1] https://nationalpost.com/pmn/health-pmn/spain-monkeypox-cases-tally-reaches-31-mostly-linked-to-sauna https://nationalpost.com/pmn/health-pmn/spain-monkeypox-case...

Proven 4y ago

dmckeon 4y ago

Reading these comments strongly reminds me of the early confusion and moral panic of about 1981-1982, when reports of something called GrID began. The conflation of infection vectors, susceptible populations, and behaviors helped cause years of delay in public health response. Let’s not make exactly those same mistakes 40 years later.

arisAlexis 4y ago

It's worth noting that multiple outbreaks in several countries at the same time in gay communities without all of them attending the same parties should be such a rare occurrence other options should be considered.

TechBro8615 4y ago
Yes, it sounds like there are multiple disconnected infection clusters, with the assumption of a similar mode of transmission in each. (I’m obviously inferring this based on limited thin evidence.) Consider a hypothetical autocratic regime with a history of criminalizing sexuality, committing human rights violations, and researching biological weapons. If their military felt it was time to deploy an airborne virus within enemy population centers, wouldn’t it make sense to do so simultaneously? And why wouldn’t this regime release it in a class of location that create plausible deniability, maligns a population historically persecuted by the regime, and foments societal conflict in the enemy? Personally, given the implications, I’m hoping this warfare proves to be more informational than biological.
- arisAlexis 4y ago
  I would add to your fictional regime that it would have already used chemical and nuclear agents to poison people outside their country.
- mburee 4y ago
  You're obviously implying that the US did it

atkailash 4y ago

wildylion 4y ago

Disclaimer: I'm a bi guy and am pretty okay with any kind of consentuous, safe sex, but (butt?!)... Oh man that's loaded. Why does everybody always pigeonhole male on male sex together with anal? Not everybody is doing it, and really, why would you associate (see what I did here?) monkeypox with ass? Mucous membranes are mucous membranes, and besides that you can't deduce anything without further information on how it transmits. And after all, anal is a bit like Java, works with all genders. Pretty lame-ass logic here.

stuntkite 4y ago
Not quite the discussion I was thinking I'd see here but I've been learning a lot more about the early HIV years. I'm straight leaning but have spent most of my life in gay circles. The health issues and the misinformation and fear of gay lifestyles outside but also inside of gay communities makes clarity so difficult and hard to depersonalize enough to manage safety protocols. Also, when the way someone loves has a high potential to kill them in exotic ways.... people get weird. Groups of people get nasty. Thank you for your well written humorous point here.

mateo1 4y ago

I wonder if hiv is related. Has there been any information on whether the individuals have been infected at some point in their lives or are undergoing treatment for it?