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What is with those arrow keys? Who wants double wide half height up and down keys? 2 x 0.5 does not equal one full sized key. Am I really to believe that relab

What is with those arrow keys? Who wants double wide half height up and down keys? 2 x 0.5 does not equal one full sized key. Am I really to believe that relabeling the win key to super is some sort of engineering feat?

proactivesvcs 4y ago
And the power button sitting just above backspace. Point me to a dev who doesn't use backspace about as much as they do the return key ;-)
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  Yeah it's very hopeful there is a delay built in when pressing that, like Apple does.
  - diffeomorphism 4y ago
    Why "built in"? Isn't that just software? E.g. on every Linux laptop I had there was a drop-down menu for "when power button is pressed, do...".
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Well, it triggers an ACPI event, that is pretty close to hardware. And it's handy to not ignore the power button. What Apple does is just waiting to trigger the ACPI event unless you press it for half a second or so.
- drKarl 4y ago
  Well actually... I use vim keybindings everywhere including IntelliJ, and I don't use the backspace to delete as it's inefficient... I sometimes use the return key, but not that often either since I have more efficient ways to open a new line as well. I'm sure there's lots of devs like me... That said, the location of the power button is unfortunate, I would expect it to be on the corner.
- orthoxerox 4y ago
  Back in the U I had to use some atrocious desktop keyboards in local classrooms. One had power management buttons right above the arrow keys and they had regular keycaps to boot. After losing my work for the third time after trying to delete something I just popped them all out.
p1necone 4y ago
> Am I really to believe that relabeling the win key to super is some sort of engineering feat? I think it's just worth mentioning in the marketing material because laptop keycaps are generally hard/impossible to swap out individually because they're not really standardized. So it's actually significant that it comes with a non windows logo super key out of the box. Just one of the little things that all add up to make it feel like Linux is a first class supported thing on it.
- tedunangst 4y ago
  Maybe I'm just too cynical, but this seems like something that's so superficial, you'd only call it it out to distract from something else. To convey the feeling of first class support, without actually providing it. If I'd been the product manager, I'd have made the change, then strictly prohibited marketing from mentioning it precisely so that people can notice on their own. I've run not windows on laptops for years, with custom key bindings for the windows key, and not once has it ever bothered me that the symbol on the super key is some funny squares instead of the word super. It's a really small point so probably not worth dwelling on, and yet, they chose to make it a focus point of their copy. I get try hard vibes.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
True, those double width keys will really screw with your muscle memory even more than the regular half-height ones, especially when you're frequently switching to an external keyboard.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  They even have enough room for a normal inverted-T if they would just stop copying Apple and make the right shift key narrower. That would also open up a gap between the left arrow and Ctrl for easier blind navigation. This is too much superfluous style with gimped functionality.
  - occoder 4y ago
    Agree. The Right Shift key looks extra wide on this particular laptop, so that design would've left a decent width for the Right Shift key. Then again, instead of all the extra wide keys and one extra column of keys to the right of the Enter key, why not two extra columns? Then we can: 1. avoid eating into the space of the Right Shift key 2. have Home/End/PageUp/PageDown in the same layout as in a full size keyboard 3. have Insert in there as oppose to being up on the function key row 4. have the power button in the top right corner instead of the awkward position it is in here, somewhere in the middle Like I said, nobody gives keyboards one ounce of thought ever. I don't think it's about copying Apple as much as an industry-wide neglect of keyboard design. Most people don't give the keyboard a lot of weight when making buying decisions, and consequently manufacturers give keyboard designs very little thought.

proactivesvcs 4y ago

And the power button sitting just above backspace. Point me to a dev who doesn't use backspace about as much as they do the return key ;-)

GekkePrutser 4y ago
Yeah it's very hopeful there is a delay built in when pressing that, like Apple does.
- diffeomorphism 4y ago
  Why "built in"? Isn't that just software? E.g. on every Linux laptop I had there was a drop-down menu for "when power button is pressed, do...".
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Well, it triggers an ACPI event, that is pretty close to hardware. And it's handy to not ignore the power button. What Apple does is just waiting to trigger the ACPI event unless you press it for half a second or so.
drKarl 4y ago
Well actually... I use vim keybindings everywhere including IntelliJ, and I don't use the backspace to delete as it's inefficient... I sometimes use the return key, but not that often either since I have more efficient ways to open a new line as well. I'm sure there's lots of devs like me... That said, the location of the power button is unfortunate, I would expect it to be on the corner.
orthoxerox 4y ago
Back in the U I had to use some atrocious desktop keyboards in local classrooms. One had power management buttons right above the arrow keys and they had regular keycaps to boot. After losing my work for the third time after trying to delete something I just popped them all out.

p1necone 4y ago

> Am I really to believe that relabeling the win key to super is some sort of engineering feat? I think it's just worth mentioning in the marketing material because laptop keycaps are generally hard/impossible to swap out individually because they're not really standardized. So it's actually significant that it comes with a non windows logo super key out of the box. Just one of the little things that all add up to make it feel like Linux is a first class supported thing on it.

tedunangst 4y ago
Maybe I'm just too cynical, but this seems like something that's so superficial, you'd only call it it out to distract from something else. To convey the feeling of first class support, without actually providing it. If I'd been the product manager, I'd have made the change, then strictly prohibited marketing from mentioning it precisely so that people can notice on their own. I've run not windows on laptops for years, with custom key bindings for the windows key, and not once has it ever bothered me that the symbol on the super key is some funny squares instead of the word super. It's a really small point so probably not worth dwelling on, and yet, they chose to make it a focus point of their copy. I get try hard vibes.

GekkePrutser 4y ago

True, those double width keys will really screw with your muscle memory even more than the regular half-height ones, especially when you're frequently switching to an external keyboard.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
They even have enough room for a normal inverted-T if they would just stop copying Apple and make the right shift key narrower. That would also open up a gap between the left arrow and Ctrl for easier blind navigation. This is too much superfluous style with gimped functionality.
- occoder 4y ago
  Agree. The Right Shift key looks extra wide on this particular laptop, so that design would've left a decent width for the Right Shift key. Then again, instead of all the extra wide keys and one extra column of keys to the right of the Enter key, why not two extra columns? Then we can: 1. avoid eating into the space of the Right Shift key 2. have Home/End/PageUp/PageDown in the same layout as in a full size keyboard 3. have Insert in there as oppose to being up on the function key row 4. have the power button in the top right corner instead of the awkward position it is in here, somewhere in the middle Like I said, nobody gives keyboards one ounce of thought ever. I don't think it's about copying Apple as much as an industry-wide neglect of keyboard design. Most people don't give the keyboard a lot of weight when making buying decisions, and consequently manufacturers give keyboard designs very little thought.