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I want to like this, but I feel like 32GB of RAM is minimum if I were buying a new laptop. I’ve been heavily eyeing the Framework but I’d prefer AMD. This had

I want to like this, but I feel like 32GB of RAM is minimum if I were buying a new laptop. I’ve been heavily eyeing the Framework but I’d prefer AMD. This had AMD but is limited to 16GB of RAM… lots of unnecessary tradeoffs being made here.

Kaibeezy 4y ago
I’m non-tech side and snorted at max 16GB for devs. GLWT HP. Concur with the other comment that said it’s a marketing exercise aimed at decision makers.
- systemvoltage 4y ago
  I don't get it, you can upgrade it. What's the problem? 16GB is not the maximum possible RAM. Edit: I meant, you can upgrade it when speccing the laptop. The RAM is probably soldered.
  - crossroadsguy 4y ago
    Problem is it’s not a metal encased laptop with a partially bitten fruit on the back. If it had been that then people would have been happy to pay $2K for 8GB RAM and sing paeans and wait breathlessly to upgrade to next iteration for $2.9K next year, again with 8GB RAM.
    - filmgirlcw 4y ago
      I mean, is it clear that it is upgradable? Because I don’t see any information about that on HP’s site. And it isn’t ridiculous to ask this question as most $1100 laptops don’t have upgradable memory. So if you’re stuck at 16GB, that’s unacceptable for a developer laptop in 2022, I don’t care what logo is on the back. 32GB is the only acceptable starting point.
      - mmstick76 4y ago
        You can add memory modules for 32 or 64 GB
- mmstick76 4y ago
  The max is 64GB
black_puppydog 4y ago
I'd be fine with 16 and 1TB SSB, but only if both are upgradeable...
- 7speter 4y ago
  The ssd isnt too bad assuming theres usb 3/c to plug supplemental storage in, but thats jmo
p1necone 4y ago
Framework has recently announced availability of Intel 12th gen - still not AMD, but it's a fairly huge jump in performance from 11th gen. And of course you can just order a replacement mainboard for your already purchased Framework laptop, which is awesome.
- WWLink 4y ago
  Yea, I admit, Framework makes an extremely compelling selling point here. If I buy a Framework laptop I can buy my own replacement parts and not have to ever deal with warranty service ever again. I can buy Rev 1 and then a few years later possibly buy a Rev 5 motherboard.. and maybe a Rev 5 lower shell to accommodate it or some other silly stuff. It kinda reminds me of how some Thinkpad addicts went to crazy lengths to upgrade their 10 year old thinkpads with modern parts lol. Except this time it's official and supported. That's awesome! I think this HP is kinda tacky. I don't need a trackpoint and I don't want a keyboard offset to the side like that.
jackpot51 4y ago
It is upgradeable to 64GB.
- 7speter 4y ago
  Am i wrong to think that for 1000 dollars this laptop should come with 32gb of ram? Though its great that one can upgrade the memory.
  - rendaw 4y ago
    What does "Linux laptop" mean? Are you basically paying $1000 for high quality drivers for all of the computer components? More importantly, if companies keep on releasing Linux laptops and only laptops we may really never see the Year of the Linux desktop :(
    - cdiddy2 4y ago
      Well linux on desktop mostly just works. Linux on laptops has been a headache for a while with awful battery life, trackpad issues, wifi issues and things like that. So personally I don't feel the need for any dedicated linux desktop release compared to the laptop space where I appreciate more of a guarantee that the drivers actually work and I won't spend all my time messing with linux internals trying to get it to work.
  - yumraj 4y ago
    To put things into perspective, Apple charges $400 to upgrade from $16GB to $32GB. So I’ll say that expecting 32GB RAM in a $1K laptop is a little too unrealistic.
    - josephcsible 4y ago
      But Apple charges ridiculous premiums for everything. For example, at https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-12-gen-intel/configuration/edit https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-12-gen-intel/configur... it's only $80 more for 32GB than for 16GB.
    - 4y ago
gameswithgo 4y ago
What workload do you do that 16GB isn't enough? Compiling large database backed .NET projects and Rust projects and AAA gaming all fit fine in 16GB
- d4a 4y ago
  Virtualization is one that I frequently do. Running a VM to test out programs (especially to test out Windows compat, or macOS if you're feeling up to the challenge). 16GB can barely run an additional VM, and if you have 30-40 FF tabs open, an IDE, and so on, then running with just 16GB of memory becomes very restrictive. Allocating 8GB to the (one) VM would leave you with 8 for the host OS, of which 2GB is going to be used by the kernel/WM, and leaves only 6GB to develop with.
- fuck_google 4y ago
- 7speter 4y ago
  Looking at docs in a browser
- dataflow 4y ago
  > What workload do you do that 16GB isn't enough? Run a C++ IDE on a medium-large codebase and you can very quickly run out of RAM.
- czx4f4bd 4y ago
  I'm using 18GB on Pop_OS right now and often use more. The main contributors are browser tabs and VS Code. If I closed out the projects I'm not actively working on right now and hunted down anything hogging RAM, I could get back under 16GB, but the nice thing about having 32GB is I almost never have to do that.
  - easrng 4y ago
    I'm pretty sure browsers automatically expand their in-memory cache to fill the available space, things would probably work with less.
mindcrime 4y ago
I bought a new System 76 machine about this time last year, and splurged (by my standards) on 64GB of RAM. BEST. DECISION. EVAAAR. as far as I'm concerned. For probably the first time in my life, I feel like I can do basically whatever I want and not have to worry about RAM. Have 8 Firefox windows with 200 tabs open, 3 or 4 Eclipse instances, and a few server apps running, and want to launch a bunch of VM's with Vagrant? Done. Want to launch one more Eclipse instance? Not a problem. Opening another couple of dozen browser tabs? No sweat. Of course that's not my normal mode of operation (well, except for the 200 tabs part), but the point is, I'm finally not limited by memory. I don't have to think about it now. I don't find myself always running "top" or "free -h" to try and figure out "OK, do I need to kill some stuff now?" and if so, "what should I kill?" Nope. Any and everything I do in my routine workflow fits in the scope of the hardware. It's incredibly liberating. "Oh," the critics will say, "RAM that isn't used is wasted." To which I say "so fucking what? It's my RAM and I'll damn well waste it if I want."
- sph 4y ago
  I'm terrified to think that in a not-so-distant future we'll be complaining about laptops shipping with only 64 GB RAM. I bet it'll still be because of Electron.
  - mindcrime 4y ago
    I still remember upgrading my first PC from 1 meg of RAM to 4 meg. I thought I was a god, and couldn't imagine what I'd ever do with "all of this memory". Times change...
- usr1106 4y ago
  Who would be able to productively use 200 open browser tabs? Seems like a strange argument to waste even more resources on a more and more ruined planet.
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    Sometimes if I'm buying some stuff from Amazon I'll do a ton of research on each one, looking for alternatives, specs, discussions, reviews, etc. Each search can sometimes go up to 40-50 tabs, especially if I'm looking for a specific set of attributes in a product and I just can't find the perfect match. I'll do the searches in parallel and switch between them, so I'll keep everything open since closing and re-opening 50 tabs whenever I want to revisit a session is tedious. Getting to 200 tabs is pretty normal in these situations.

Kaibeezy 4y ago

I’m non-tech side and snorted at max 16GB for devs. GLWT HP. Concur with the other comment that said it’s a marketing exercise aimed at decision makers.

systemvoltage 4y ago
I don't get it, you can upgrade it. What's the problem? 16GB is not the maximum possible RAM. Edit: I meant, you can upgrade it when speccing the laptop. The RAM is probably soldered.
- crossroadsguy 4y ago
  Problem is it’s not a metal encased laptop with a partially bitten fruit on the back. If it had been that then people would have been happy to pay $2K for 8GB RAM and sing paeans and wait breathlessly to upgrade to next iteration for $2.9K next year, again with 8GB RAM.
  - filmgirlcw 4y ago
    I mean, is it clear that it is upgradable? Because I don’t see any information about that on HP’s site. And it isn’t ridiculous to ask this question as most $1100 laptops don’t have upgradable memory. So if you’re stuck at 16GB, that’s unacceptable for a developer laptop in 2022, I don’t care what logo is on the back. 32GB is the only acceptable starting point.
    - mmstick76 4y ago
      You can add memory modules for 32 or 64 GB
mmstick76 4y ago
The max is 64GB

black_puppydog 4y ago

I'd be fine with 16 and 1TB SSB, but only if both are upgradeable...

7speter 4y ago
The ssd isnt too bad assuming theres usb 3/c to plug supplemental storage in, but thats jmo

p1necone 4y ago

Framework has recently announced availability of Intel 12th gen - still not AMD, but it's a fairly huge jump in performance from 11th gen. And of course you can just order a replacement mainboard for your already purchased Framework laptop, which is awesome.

WWLink 4y ago
Yea, I admit, Framework makes an extremely compelling selling point here. If I buy a Framework laptop I can buy my own replacement parts and not have to ever deal with warranty service ever again. I can buy Rev 1 and then a few years later possibly buy a Rev 5 motherboard.. and maybe a Rev 5 lower shell to accommodate it or some other silly stuff. It kinda reminds me of how some Thinkpad addicts went to crazy lengths to upgrade their 10 year old thinkpads with modern parts lol. Except this time it's official and supported. That's awesome! I think this HP is kinda tacky. I don't need a trackpoint and I don't want a keyboard offset to the side like that.

jackpot51 4y ago

It is upgradeable to 64GB.

7speter 4y ago
Am i wrong to think that for 1000 dollars this laptop should come with 32gb of ram? Though its great that one can upgrade the memory.
- rendaw 4y ago
  What does "Linux laptop" mean? Are you basically paying $1000 for high quality drivers for all of the computer components? More importantly, if companies keep on releasing Linux laptops and only laptops we may really never see the Year of the Linux desktop :(
  - cdiddy2 4y ago
    Well linux on desktop mostly just works. Linux on laptops has been a headache for a while with awful battery life, trackpad issues, wifi issues and things like that. So personally I don't feel the need for any dedicated linux desktop release compared to the laptop space where I appreciate more of a guarantee that the drivers actually work and I won't spend all my time messing with linux internals trying to get it to work.
- yumraj 4y ago
  To put things into perspective, Apple charges $400 to upgrade from $16GB to $32GB. So I’ll say that expecting 32GB RAM in a $1K laptop is a little too unrealistic.
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    But Apple charges ridiculous premiums for everything. For example, at https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-12-gen-intel/configuration/edit https://frame.work/products/laptop-diy-12-gen-intel/configur... it's only $80 more for 32GB than for 16GB.
  - 4y ago

gameswithgo 4y ago

What workload do you do that 16GB isn't enough? Compiling large database backed .NET projects and Rust projects and AAA gaming all fit fine in 16GB

d4a 4y ago
Virtualization is one that I frequently do. Running a VM to test out programs (especially to test out Windows compat, or macOS if you're feeling up to the challenge). 16GB can barely run an additional VM, and if you have 30-40 FF tabs open, an IDE, and so on, then running with just 16GB of memory becomes very restrictive. Allocating 8GB to the (one) VM would leave you with 8 for the host OS, of which 2GB is going to be used by the kernel/WM, and leaves only 6GB to develop with.
fuck_google 4y ago
7speter 4y ago
Looking at docs in a browser
dataflow 4y ago
> What workload do you do that 16GB isn't enough? Run a C++ IDE on a medium-large codebase and you can very quickly run out of RAM.
czx4f4bd 4y ago
I'm using 18GB on Pop_OS right now and often use more. The main contributors are browser tabs and VS Code. If I closed out the projects I'm not actively working on right now and hunted down anything hogging RAM, I could get back under 16GB, but the nice thing about having 32GB is I almost never have to do that.
- easrng 4y ago
  I'm pretty sure browsers automatically expand their in-memory cache to fill the available space, things would probably work with less.

mindcrime 4y ago

I bought a new System 76 machine about this time last year, and splurged (by my standards) on 64GB of RAM. BEST. DECISION. EVAAAR. as far as I'm concerned. For probably the first time in my life, I feel like I can do basically whatever I want and not have to worry about RAM. Have 8 Firefox windows with 200 tabs open, 3 or 4 Eclipse instances, and a few server apps running, and want to launch a bunch of VM's with Vagrant? Done. Want to launch one more Eclipse instance? Not a problem. Opening another couple of dozen browser tabs? No sweat. Of course that's not my normal mode of operation (well, except for the 200 tabs part), but the point is, I'm finally not limited by memory. I don't have to think about it now. I don't find myself always running "top" or "free -h" to try and figure out "OK, do I need to kill some stuff now?" and if so, "what should I kill?" Nope. Any and everything I do in my routine workflow fits in the scope of the hardware. It's incredibly liberating. "Oh," the critics will say, "RAM that isn't used is wasted." To which I say "so fucking what? It's my RAM and I'll damn well waste it if I want."

sph 4y ago
I'm terrified to think that in a not-so-distant future we'll be complaining about laptops shipping with only 64 GB RAM. I bet it'll still be because of Electron.
- mindcrime 4y ago
  I still remember upgrading my first PC from 1 meg of RAM to 4 meg. I thought I was a god, and couldn't imagine what I'd ever do with "all of this memory". Times change...
usr1106 4y ago
Who would be able to productively use 200 open browser tabs? Seems like a strange argument to waste even more resources on a more and more ruined planet.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  Sometimes if I'm buying some stuff from Amazon I'll do a ton of research on each one, looking for alternatives, specs, discussions, reviews, etc. Each search can sometimes go up to 40-50 tabs, especially if I'm looking for a specific set of attributes in a product and I just can't find the perfect match. I'll do the searches in parallel and switch between them, so I'll keep everything open since closing and re-opening 50 tabs whenever I want to revisit a session is tedious. Getting to 200 tabs is pretty normal in these situations.