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Charitable programs in places of worship existed long before government programs. These are communities of people giving their time, money, and resources, and a

by daenz 4y ago

Charitable programs in places of worship existed long before government programs. These are communities of people giving their time, money, and resources, and are actually invested in the people they are helping. If you don't believe they ever helped anyone, then we fundamentally disagree on historical facts.

mikeyouse 4y ago
Literally nobody is disputing that charities in places of worship "ever helped anyone". What's in dispute is whether they would have sufficient resources and the will to help everyone. There are plenty of stories about religious programs refusing to help those outside of their religion which presents a pretty big problem if we're supposed to rely on them for universal charity. One recent story: https://www.propublica.org/article/utahs-social-safety-net-is-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-does-that-mean-if-youre-not-one https://www.propublica.org/article/utahs-social-safety-net-i...
- daenz 4y ago
  - taurath 4y ago
    Please assume I'm a reasonable person enough to not say that nobody has ever received help, and see the context as to what I meant - that many people do not receive enough help.
notriddle 4y ago
Exactly what time period in what part of the world are you thinking of? If you go back too far, you'll hit a time when places of worship were the government, or at least so entangled in it as to make no difference. If you don't go back far enough, you'll hit a time when work houses and sanitariums were commonplace, which might be inhumane by modern standards, but definitely count as "government programs to help the poor."
taurath 4y ago
> If you don't believe they ever helped anyone I can see from your very uncharitable reading of my comment how you could see that I was saying that. I was saying that many people have not and currently don't have receive help from those charitable institutions, and also its not enough. Look around you to see whether charitable programs are enough to solve these problems. If they were, they'd be solved. They are /helping/, but they're not enough, and often they come with strings attached like hide that you're LGBT, which some people literally can't do. People need actual security - if charitable programs gave it to people then there'd be no problem, but they can't or won't.
fzeroracer 4y ago
Those charitable programs exist now. There's nothing stopping them from existing. So why does the problem still exist then? And more importantly: Why have other countries solved this in a far better manner than the US? There's plenty of easy answers to these problems if we'd look to just emulate what other countries do for welfare, healthcare etc instead of pretending that we're better than them while failing at every aspect.

by daenz 4y ago

mikeyouse 4y ago

Literally nobody is disputing that charities in places of worship "ever helped anyone". What's in dispute is whether they would have sufficient resources and the will to help everyone. There are plenty of stories about religious programs refusing to help those outside of their religion which presents a pretty big problem if we're supposed to rely on them for universal charity. One recent story: https://www.propublica.org/article/utahs-social-safety-net-is-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints-what-does-that-mean-if-youre-not-one https://www.propublica.org/article/utahs-social-safety-net-i...

daenz 4y ago
- taurath 4y ago
  Please assume I'm a reasonable person enough to not say that nobody has ever received help, and see the context as to what I meant - that many people do not receive enough help.

notriddle 4y ago

Exactly what time period in what part of the world are you thinking of? If you go back too far, you'll hit a time when places of worship were the government, or at least so entangled in it as to make no difference. If you don't go back far enough, you'll hit a time when work houses and sanitariums were commonplace, which might be inhumane by modern standards, but definitely count as "government programs to help the poor."

taurath 4y ago

> If you don't believe they ever helped anyone I can see from your very uncharitable reading of my comment how you could see that I was saying that. I was saying that many people have not and currently don't have receive help from those charitable institutions, and also its not enough. Look around you to see whether charitable programs are enough to solve these problems. If they were, they'd be solved. They are /helping/, but they're not enough, and often they come with strings attached like hide that you're LGBT, which some people literally can't do. People need actual security - if charitable programs gave it to people then there'd be no problem, but they can't or won't.

fzeroracer 4y ago

Those charitable programs exist now. There's nothing stopping them from existing. So why does the problem still exist then? And more importantly: Why have other countries solved this in a far better manner than the US? There's plenty of easy answers to these problems if we'd look to just emulate what other countries do for welfare, healthcare etc instead of pretending that we're better than them while failing at every aspect.