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This is great for small companies, but large companies are interested in standardizing the interview process. Leetcode is great for that since the outcome is pr

This is great for small companies, but large companies are interested in standardizing the interview process. Leetcode is great for that since the outcome is pretty binary.

karaterobot 4y ago
Agreed, but I see the impulse to standardize as the source of a lot of the problems people have — by people, I mean both good engineers, and the companies who can't hire them.
- angarg12 4y ago
  Honest question, how would you handle hiring at FAANG scale without standard processes? For reference we had an opening in my team and 1600 people applied.
  - b20000 4y ago
    go on linkedin and message the people you think can do the job based on prior work and experience or degrees. trash the rest.
  - karaterobot 4y ago
    This process still relied on screening, including technical screens. The biggest difference is that it substituted a day of whiteboard interviews with a day of pairing, which we found to produce better results, and candidates really liked too.
  - hcrean 4y ago
    Having 1600 applicants for a SE role is not a unique, but definitely a very niche, problem to have...
  - animalhot 4y ago
    Apple used to have a per team interview process(don’t know if it has changed). While the interview experience can vary a lot, there are certain pockets/teams that are spectacularly brilliant and have the freedom to maintain the bar & conduct targeted hiring.
MrWiffles 4y ago
Sure, great for metrics, terrible for actually doing the job. Leetcode can never compete with or allow a candidate to demonstrate real multi-dimensional or multi-systems thinking. You may be able to write some bass ackwards arcane algorithm and prove you’re “31337” but can you make that work at scale with a data store that you have no information about? How’s it going to get the data to operate on in the first place? Will your data retrieval query cripple a prod database? Read from replica? How far behind can that data be without making your fancy algorithm useless? How will you parallelize that work set? In-request or background job? Multi-threaded or single thread? What about changing state in multi threaded contexts? Database indexes? Schema design? How will you handle failures in your algorithm? How will you handle malformed data? And most importantly, does what you’re doing benefit the user, or just your epeen? Leetcode is bullshit. It’ll never let somebody show you they’re good at anything other than solving bullshit problems. And you’ll lose everybody who CAN work within the larger context by chasing candidates who’s chief skill is solving bullshit problems.
- bluedevilzn 4y ago
  Leetcode is a proxy IQ test. Anyone who can do leetcode can learn how database indexes work (hint: it uses Data Structures and Algorithms) but not the other way around.
  - switchbak 4y ago
    I mean yes, it does filter for those that are willing to put up with some bullshit to get a job. But you haven't convinced me that the group that's unwilling to put up with this is unqualified. There are many senior people or folks with families/etc that don't have the time or patience for this ridiculous cargo cult hazing ritual masquerading as a hiring technique. I would say your assertion that "leetcode is a proxy for IQ" is a bold statement to make without some bold sources to back it up. I've personally met a number of people that are great at these small scoped problems but suffer at broader systems engineering.
    - RedGreenCode 4y ago
jackdbd 4y ago
sure, let's spend time solving Leetcode problems instead of understanding how HTTP works.

This is great for small companies, but large companies are interested in standardizing the interview process. Leetcode is great for that since the outcome is pretty binary.

karaterobot 4y ago

Agreed, but I see the impulse to standardize as the source of a lot of the problems people have — by people, I mean both good engineers, and the companies who can't hire them.

angarg12 4y ago
Honest question, how would you handle hiring at FAANG scale without standard processes? For reference we had an opening in my team and 1600 people applied.
- b20000 4y ago
  go on linkedin and message the people you think can do the job based on prior work and experience or degrees. trash the rest.
- karaterobot 4y ago
  This process still relied on screening, including technical screens. The biggest difference is that it substituted a day of whiteboard interviews with a day of pairing, which we found to produce better results, and candidates really liked too.
- hcrean 4y ago
  Having 1600 applicants for a SE role is not a unique, but definitely a very niche, problem to have...
- animalhot 4y ago
  Apple used to have a per team interview process(don’t know if it has changed). While the interview experience can vary a lot, there are certain pockets/teams that are spectacularly brilliant and have the freedom to maintain the bar & conduct targeted hiring.

MrWiffles 4y ago

Sure, great for metrics, terrible for actually doing the job. Leetcode can never compete with or allow a candidate to demonstrate real multi-dimensional or multi-systems thinking. You may be able to write some bass ackwards arcane algorithm and prove you’re “31337” but can you make that work at scale with a data store that you have no information about? How’s it going to get the data to operate on in the first place? Will your data retrieval query cripple a prod database? Read from replica? How far behind can that data be without making your fancy algorithm useless? How will you parallelize that work set? In-request or background job? Multi-threaded or single thread? What about changing state in multi threaded contexts? Database indexes? Schema design? How will you handle failures in your algorithm? How will you handle malformed data? And most importantly, does what you’re doing benefit the user, or just your epeen? Leetcode is bullshit. It’ll never let somebody show you they’re good at anything other than solving bullshit problems. And you’ll lose everybody who CAN work within the larger context by chasing candidates who’s chief skill is solving bullshit problems.

bluedevilzn 4y ago
Leetcode is a proxy IQ test. Anyone who can do leetcode can learn how database indexes work (hint: it uses Data Structures and Algorithms) but not the other way around.
- switchbak 4y ago
  I mean yes, it does filter for those that are willing to put up with some bullshit to get a job. But you haven't convinced me that the group that's unwilling to put up with this is unqualified. There are many senior people or folks with families/etc that don't have the time or patience for this ridiculous cargo cult hazing ritual masquerading as a hiring technique. I would say your assertion that "leetcode is a proxy for IQ" is a bold statement to make without some bold sources to back it up. I've personally met a number of people that are great at these small scoped problems but suffer at broader systems engineering.
  - RedGreenCode 4y ago

jackdbd 4y ago

sure, let's spend time solving Leetcode problems instead of understanding how HTTP works.