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Don’t forget Russia sending ships to America in support of the union. The letters between tsar Alex and Lincoln are some of the loveliest pieces of writing and

Don’t forget Russia sending ships to America in support of the union. The letters between tsar Alex and Lincoln are some of the loveliest pieces of writing and highest praises for America. http://beam-inc.org/abraham-lincoln-and-tsar-alexander-ii-part-i/ http://beam-inc.org/abraham-lincoln-and-tsar-alexander-ii-pa...

SemanticStrengh 4y ago
American russophobia is a sad state of affair considering history, they also gave Alaska for a negligible price. > When the Civil War broke out, both England and France considered hostile intervention on behalf of the South and they tried to convince the Tsar to join them. Alexander II’s refusal was critically important because the British and French then decided to abort their plans. It's crazy to think Russia determined modern america fate
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  You mean the country committing war crimes daily and threatening the world with nukes?
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Yes, the russophobia of that country is a tragedy.
  - klibertp 4y ago
    - spywaregorilla 4y ago
      The US does a lot of shit, but it doesn't actively threaten countries with nuclear weapons
      - ipaddr 4y ago
        They built the biggest pile of them, have them pointed at certain countries. That can be threatening
        katbyte 4y ago
        While it may be threatening Americans have so many nukes, they are very much not making desperate threats with them, like Russia currently is.
        klibertp 4y ago
        What about "fire and fury"? Wasn't that a threat? Also, please note that in my original comment I'm talking about the future - after the collapse of Russia, in a few decades. Can you guarantee that the world will not need to deal with another Trump in a situation where the MAD doctrine stopped working? And as for currently, don't you think the US is not making "desperate threats" simply because it has absolute no need to? In a parallel universe where Russo-Sino alliance conventional military was much more advanced than the US, what would the US do if the alliance absorbed Mexico or Canada, deploying (for protection, of course) tens of thousands of people along with huge piles of weapons on their territory? Can you trust the US not to make "desperate threats" then? I can't. Especially because there's only one country that developed and used nuclear weapons against civilians. In that context, even a statement from a clown of a president about "fire and fury" is something really dangerous. And since we already had to deal with a clown, it's really not that much of a stretch to fear that an actual madman gets elected sometime down the road.
        katbyte 4y ago
        Threatening with conventional arms is not the same as threatening to use nuclear arms. Many countries threaten to use their military - yet Russia is going as far to threaten the offensive use of nukes. I’m discussing the reality of now not some theoretical future/parallel universe as what’s the point? Russia is doing what Russia is now and that’s the problem.
- edgyquant 4y ago
  America and Russia had a great relationship until the end of WWI. The Bolshevik’s set this in stone towards the end of the civil war when the entente (specifically Britain) opened dialogue towards a trade deal. Lenin used them as the great other, despite knowing they wanted normalized relations, and then the USSR taking Eastern Europe sealed the deal. Self determination was US policy at that time (and kind of ever since.)
  - berdario 4y ago
    > The Bolshevik’s set this in stone towards the end of the civil war... I'm not sure about the events that you're referring to. The Treaty of Riga was in 1921, the Anglo-Soviet Trade Agreement was signed in 1921 as well, the USSR was only declared in 1922, and the UK recognized it in 1924, the same year in which Lenin died. In fact, related to the Trade Agreement he complained: > The British government has handed us its draft, we have given our counterdraft, but it is still obvious that the British government is dragging its feet over the agreement because the reactionary war party is still hard at work there So, I don't think it's fair to assume that it was only the UK who wanted normalized relations, and that the difficulties came from only one side. > taking Eastern Europe sealed the deal Which again, seems out of place, since I presume you're referring to events that followed the start of WW2. Talking about WW2, Europe wasn't friendly to the USSR leading up to war: The initial anti-comintern treaty in 1935 was extended to the United Kingdom, Italy, Poland and China (ruled by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek). In 1939, Stalin offered to Britain and France to deploy a million troops against Nazi Germany, but he had been rebuffed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/322... and of course, Churchill's Operation Unthinkable means that Britan had a deep, deep distrust of the USSR. Despite all this, the USSR asked to join NATO in 1954, but again: it had been rebuffed, along its proposals of reunification and neutrality for Germany. We often forget about all this, and only think of the reasons for why we distrusted the USSR, but we ignore all of the opportunities that we missed for a friendlier relationship.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
- watwut 4y ago
  Right now, Russophobia is kind of healthy thinking. Their current mix of tsarism and return to kinda communist thinking except the communist ideology is sucky and dangerous.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - myko 4y ago
      Probably referring to Russia looking to return to a command economy: https://cepa.org/rattled-russia-re-embraces-the-command-economy/ https://cepa.org/rattled-russia-re-embraces-the-command-econ... Not good for the people of Russia, but nothing good can come while Putin is still in power.
      - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        Thanks for sharing
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    Pick one: - Russia is an authoritarian state lead by one man and his inner circle - It is rational to hate Russians in general
    - watwut 4y ago
      Russia is an authoritarian state lead by one man and his inner circle. This man has very high public support. In particular, Russian population supports imperial ideology. That is no contradiction. Authoritarians can have public support while at the same time severely oppressing opposition or anyone who dares to voice something else. Also, opposition to Putin does not imply opposition to annexation of Ukrainian lands or turning Ukrainians into Russians by force. Opposition to Putin does not imply pro-democracy reform either. > It is rational to hate Russians in general Hate is a feeling. But accusations of Russophobia are all about support for sanctions or Ukraine in war. And are deployed whenever someone points out Russia as is now is threat to not just Ukraine, but to all countries in former eastern block. All those are rational. So, if that matter average Russians look really down on Ukrainians too, are happy to use slurs against them and act offended it other formerly occupied countries are not "thankful". ---------- If anything, Russia was enabled rather then opposed for years. It was treated as something special, more worthy then other countries around it.
- threatofrain 4y ago
  Putin ordered Russian forces to be on the highest level of nuclear readiness. We have programs on Russian state TV where people talk about using nuclear weapons to drown the UK and devastate the European coast with a nuclear tsunami. This is a scary time we live in. The conversation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine may now be centered on NATO, but it began with statements of routine training exercises at the border and escalated to the de-Nazification of Ukraine. Russia has not done well to reach the hearts of its neighbors. That we have to reach past the Cold War into the American Civil War to discuss amicable relations does not bode well.
  - avgcorrection 4y ago
    If Russophobia is a widespread phenomenon then it started way before 2022.
    - watwut 4y ago
      When Russia bombed Syrian hospitals ... invaded Chehenia and other countries ... had assasins murder people living EU, likely caused explosion in Czechs (2014), likely shut down plane, supported dictators around the world ... Common, Ukrainian invasion did not happened out of blue. And I don't even mention Russia actively trying to influence politics of ther countries to the worst.
      - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
        how do you deal with the insane double standard? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc#/media/File:The_Terror_of_War.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc#/media/File:... I'm not advocating against russophobia per se, but americanophobia seems similarly legitimate
        threatofrain 4y ago
        A very general western hatred (not merely US!) has been brewing over Russian social media for awhile now, and the conversation of whether to deny Russians their prerogative to hate the west is not really there. There isn't even much conversation on western media as to what the state of Russian social media is even like.
- IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
  There's a very brave, honorable politician, who unfortunately was lost in the annals of history, as a man directly responsible for Russian support during the civil war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Marcellus_Clay_(politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Marcellus_Clay_(politi...
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
    thx for sharing. Is Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. related to him ? (also known as Muhammad Ali)
    - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
      No. However there is a relation. Ali's grandfather specifically named his son after Cassius to honor Cassius, the KY politician. The son proceeded to do the same, with who would eventually be a famous boxer, M. Ali. The boxer changed his name to Ali, both due to his conversion to islam , and because he was angry to take the name of a plantation owner. The latter is true - Cassius was a plantation owner. However, early on he defender ardently emancipation. He in fact suffered multiple murder attempts from actual slavery advocates... who surrounded him in KY
- gurumeditations 4y ago
  “Russophobia” is a sham term invented by Russian propagandists to invalidate their opposition. It doesn’t exist.

SemanticStrengh 4y ago

American russophobia is a sad state of affair considering history, they also gave Alaska for a negligible price. > When the Civil War broke out, both England and France considered hostile intervention on behalf of the South and they tried to convince the Tsar to join them. Alexander II’s refusal was critically important because the British and French then decided to abort their plans. It's crazy to think Russia determined modern america fate

spywaregorilla 4y ago
You mean the country committing war crimes daily and threatening the world with nukes?
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Yes, the russophobia of that country is a tragedy.
- klibertp 4y ago
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    The US does a lot of shit, but it doesn't actively threaten countries with nuclear weapons
    - ipaddr 4y ago
      They built the biggest pile of them, have them pointed at certain countries. That can be threatening
      - katbyte 4y ago
        While it may be threatening Americans have so many nukes, they are very much not making desperate threats with them, like Russia currently is.
        klibertp 4y ago
        What about "fire and fury"? Wasn't that a threat? Also, please note that in my original comment I'm talking about the future - after the collapse of Russia, in a few decades. Can you guarantee that the world will not need to deal with another Trump in a situation where the MAD doctrine stopped working? And as for currently, don't you think the US is not making "desperate threats" simply because it has absolute no need to? In a parallel universe where Russo-Sino alliance conventional military was much more advanced than the US, what would the US do if the alliance absorbed Mexico or Canada, deploying (for protection, of course) tens of thousands of people along with huge piles of weapons on their territory? Can you trust the US not to make "desperate threats" then? I can't. Especially because there's only one country that developed and used nuclear weapons against civilians. In that context, even a statement from a clown of a president about "fire and fury" is something really dangerous. And since we already had to deal with a clown, it's really not that much of a stretch to fear that an actual madman gets elected sometime down the road.
        katbyte 4y ago
        Threatening with conventional arms is not the same as threatening to use nuclear arms. Many countries threaten to use their military - yet Russia is going as far to threaten the offensive use of nukes. I’m discussing the reality of now not some theoretical future/parallel universe as what’s the point? Russia is doing what Russia is now and that’s the problem.
edgyquant 4y ago
America and Russia had a great relationship until the end of WWI. The Bolshevik’s set this in stone towards the end of the civil war when the entente (specifically Britain) opened dialogue towards a trade deal. Lenin used them as the great other, despite knowing they wanted normalized relations, and then the USSR taking Eastern Europe sealed the deal. Self determination was US policy at that time (and kind of ever since.)
- berdario 4y ago
  > The Bolshevik’s set this in stone towards the end of the civil war... I'm not sure about the events that you're referring to. The Treaty of Riga was in 1921, the Anglo-Soviet Trade Agreement was signed in 1921 as well, the USSR was only declared in 1922, and the UK recognized it in 1924, the same year in which Lenin died. In fact, related to the Trade Agreement he complained: > The British government has handed us its draft, we have given our counterdraft, but it is still obvious that the British government is dragging its feet over the agreement because the reactionary war party is still hard at work there So, I don't think it's fair to assume that it was only the UK who wanted normalized relations, and that the difficulties came from only one side. > taking Eastern Europe sealed the deal Which again, seems out of place, since I presume you're referring to events that followed the start of WW2. Talking about WW2, Europe wasn't friendly to the USSR leading up to war: The initial anti-comintern treaty in 1935 was extended to the United Kingdom, Italy, Poland and China (ruled by Generalissimo Chiang Kai-shek). In 1939, Stalin offered to Britain and France to deploy a million troops against Nazi Germany, but he had been rebuffed: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3223834/Stalin-planned-to-send-a-million-troops-to-stop-Hitler-if-Britain-and-France-agreed-pact.html https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/322... and of course, Churchill's Operation Unthinkable means that Britan had a deep, deep distrust of the USSR. Despite all this, the USSR asked to join NATO in 1954, but again: it had been rebuffed, along its proposals of reunification and neutrality for Germany. We often forget about all this, and only think of the reasons for why we distrusted the USSR, but we ignore all of the opportunities that we missed for a friendlier relationship.
  - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
watwut 4y ago
Right now, Russophobia is kind of healthy thinking. Their current mix of tsarism and return to kinda communist thinking except the communist ideology is sucky and dangerous.
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - myko 4y ago
    Probably referring to Russia looking to return to a command economy: https://cepa.org/rattled-russia-re-embraces-the-command-economy/ https://cepa.org/rattled-russia-re-embraces-the-command-econ... Not good for the people of Russia, but nothing good can come while Putin is still in power.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      Thanks for sharing
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  Pick one: - Russia is an authoritarian state lead by one man and his inner circle - It is rational to hate Russians in general
  - watwut 4y ago
    Russia is an authoritarian state lead by one man and his inner circle. This man has very high public support. In particular, Russian population supports imperial ideology. That is no contradiction. Authoritarians can have public support while at the same time severely oppressing opposition or anyone who dares to voice something else. Also, opposition to Putin does not imply opposition to annexation of Ukrainian lands or turning Ukrainians into Russians by force. Opposition to Putin does not imply pro-democracy reform either. > It is rational to hate Russians in general Hate is a feeling. But accusations of Russophobia are all about support for sanctions or Ukraine in war. And are deployed whenever someone points out Russia as is now is threat to not just Ukraine, but to all countries in former eastern block. All those are rational. So, if that matter average Russians look really down on Ukrainians too, are happy to use slurs against them and act offended it other formerly occupied countries are not "thankful". ---------- If anything, Russia was enabled rather then opposed for years. It was treated as something special, more worthy then other countries around it.
threatofrain 4y ago
Putin ordered Russian forces to be on the highest level of nuclear readiness. We have programs on Russian state TV where people talk about using nuclear weapons to drown the UK and devastate the European coast with a nuclear tsunami. This is a scary time we live in. The conversation of the Russian invasion of Ukraine may now be centered on NATO, but it began with statements of routine training exercises at the border and escalated to the de-Nazification of Ukraine. Russia has not done well to reach the hearts of its neighbors. That we have to reach past the Cold War into the American Civil War to discuss amicable relations does not bode well.
- avgcorrection 4y ago
  If Russophobia is a widespread phenomenon then it started way before 2022.
  - watwut 4y ago
    When Russia bombed Syrian hospitals ... invaded Chehenia and other countries ... had assasins murder people living EU, likely caused explosion in Czechs (2014), likely shut down plane, supported dictators around the world ... Common, Ukrainian invasion did not happened out of blue. And I don't even mention Russia actively trying to influence politics of ther countries to the worst.
    - SemanticStrengh 4y ago
      how do you deal with the insane double standard? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc#/media/File:The_Terror_of_War.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phan_Thi_Kim_Phuc#/media/File:... I'm not advocating against russophobia per se, but americanophobia seems similarly legitimate
      - threatofrain 4y ago
        A very general western hatred (not merely US!) has been brewing over Russian social media for awhile now, and the conversation of whether to deny Russians their prerogative to hate the west is not really there. There isn't even much conversation on western media as to what the state of Russian social media is even like.
IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
There's a very brave, honorable politician, who unfortunately was lost in the annals of history, as a man directly responsible for Russian support during the civil war. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Marcellus_Clay_(politician) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassius_Marcellus_Clay_(politi...
- SemanticStrengh 4y ago
  thx for sharing. Is Cassius Marcellus Clay Jr. related to him ? (also known as Muhammad Ali)
  - IG_Semmelweiss 4y ago
    No. However there is a relation. Ali's grandfather specifically named his son after Cassius to honor Cassius, the KY politician. The son proceeded to do the same, with who would eventually be a famous boxer, M. Ali. The boxer changed his name to Ali, both due to his conversion to islam , and because he was angry to take the name of a plantation owner. The latter is true - Cassius was a plantation owner. However, early on he defender ardently emancipation. He in fact suffered multiple murder attempts from actual slavery advocates... who surrounded him in KY
gurumeditations 4y ago
“Russophobia” is a sham term invented by Russian propagandists to invalidate their opposition. It doesn’t exist.