4 ms·

> what you call "sex workers" is a euphemism for sex trafficked women. How involved are you in combatting sex trafficking? I've been involved in this to varyin

by warent 4y ago

> what you call "sex workers" is a euphemism for sex trafficked women. How involved are you in combatting sex trafficking? I've been involved in this to varying degrees for a few years now, and this is would be new information to me. Sex trafficking and sex work is a Venn diagram with overlap, certainly, but they are definitely not the same. Many women do sex work as an independent decision, choosing it over other choices that they are presented with, and they find fulfillment in it. Trafficked people are, at best, highly vulnerable individuals who feel they don't have any alternatives and are brainwashed by people close to them. More often than that, they are simply abducted and traded as property. Sex trafficking is a recognized form of slavery. Very different from independent sex workers. EDIT: The reason it's important to get this distinction right is because misinformation around it dilutes the seriousness of actual human trafficking. There are people in slavery who need intervention from police and governments. Not middle-class women in Orange County who do private sessions in the basement of the home they own.

throw_m239339 4y ago
- warent 4y ago
  This account is tied to my real identity. I'm not afraid of trying to openly discuss the nuances of these very complicated and painful topics because together through rational discourse we can make the world a better place. From an anonymous "throwaway" account, you completely disregard what I'm saying, you trivialize my passion in this topic, and you go so far as directly accusing me of normalizing sex trafficking. This discussion is over.
  - throw_m239339 4y ago
- mbg721 4y ago
  I think it's worth making the distinction between highly coerced women and children vs. "let's get our kink on" women who make a buck on the side.
  - bckr 4y ago
    > I think it's worth making the distinction between highly coerced women and children vs. "let's get our kink on" women who make a buck on the side Ya think? But there's always one person who twists the narrative, claiming to have the absolute moral high ground. People willing to actually think about the subject are baited into giving them the benefit of the doubt, thinking they must just be ignorant, because after all, human trafficking is horrifying. But it's just another blood libel: Accuse your opponents of supporting the most heinous thing you can imagine, so that you can justify annihilating them. In this case, the position truly being supported is that women cannot sell sex. Vehemently, violently rearranging the rhetorical space to equate selling sex with sexual slavery is just a method of magically transforming you into an evil that must be destroyed. And you will go along with it willingly, looking ever more pathetic as you try to argue that, in fact, you're on the side of the good--the bloodthirsty opponent becomes ever more and more convinced that you are completely evil. And not only evil, but disgustingly, twistedly evil. It's almost sad, how evil you are. Because you're so confused. You've been so confused by evil that you think you're good. At that point, it becomes an act of mercy to annihilate you. Think this is over the top? I don't. I don't think we should engage at all with these conversations. Downvoting is good. Flagging is better.
    - mbg721 4y ago
      - bckr 4y ago
        mbg721 4y ago
philwelch 4y ago
The problem is that “legitimate” prostitution provides cover and legitimacy for sex trafficking. I personally favor a combination of the Nordic model (I.e. don’t prosecute prostitutes themselves) and prosecutorial discretion; middle class Orange County basement whores aren’t bothering anyone as long as they’re discreet about it. Nor are the differences as clear as you make them out to be. Sure, there are clear cut cases of human trafficking, but how do you know that your Orange County basement whore isn’t caught up in an abusive relationship with some indolent man who uses her as his livelihood? More to the point, how does the john know? The whole narrative that women freely choose sex work and find it fulfilling may be true in some cases, but there’s no easy way to tell which cases those are, and the human consequences of guessing wrong are awful.

by warent 4y ago

throw_m239339 4y ago

warent 4y ago
This account is tied to my real identity. I'm not afraid of trying to openly discuss the nuances of these very complicated and painful topics because together through rational discourse we can make the world a better place. From an anonymous "throwaway" account, you completely disregard what I'm saying, you trivialize my passion in this topic, and you go so far as directly accusing me of normalizing sex trafficking. This discussion is over.
- throw_m239339 4y ago
mbg721 4y ago
I think it's worth making the distinction between highly coerced women and children vs. "let's get our kink on" women who make a buck on the side.
- bckr 4y ago
  > I think it's worth making the distinction between highly coerced women and children vs. "let's get our kink on" women who make a buck on the side Ya think? But there's always one person who twists the narrative, claiming to have the absolute moral high ground. People willing to actually think about the subject are baited into giving them the benefit of the doubt, thinking they must just be ignorant, because after all, human trafficking is horrifying. But it's just another blood libel: Accuse your opponents of supporting the most heinous thing you can imagine, so that you can justify annihilating them. In this case, the position truly being supported is that women cannot sell sex. Vehemently, violently rearranging the rhetorical space to equate selling sex with sexual slavery is just a method of magically transforming you into an evil that must be destroyed. And you will go along with it willingly, looking ever more pathetic as you try to argue that, in fact, you're on the side of the good--the bloodthirsty opponent becomes ever more and more convinced that you are completely evil. And not only evil, but disgustingly, twistedly evil. It's almost sad, how evil you are. Because you're so confused. You've been so confused by evil that you think you're good. At that point, it becomes an act of mercy to annihilate you. Think this is over the top? I don't. I don't think we should engage at all with these conversations. Downvoting is good. Flagging is better.
  - mbg721 4y ago
    - bckr 4y ago
      - mbg721 4y ago

philwelch 4y ago

The problem is that “legitimate” prostitution provides cover and legitimacy for sex trafficking. I personally favor a combination of the Nordic model (I.e. don’t prosecute prostitutes themselves) and prosecutorial discretion; middle class Orange County basement whores aren’t bothering anyone as long as they’re discreet about it. Nor are the differences as clear as you make them out to be. Sure, there are clear cut cases of human trafficking, but how do you know that your Orange County basement whore isn’t caught up in an abusive relationship with some indolent man who uses her as his livelihood? More to the point, how does the john know? The whole narrative that women freely choose sex work and find it fulfilling may be true in some cases, but there’s no easy way to tell which cases those are, and the human consequences of guessing wrong are awful.