16 ms·

This is assuming that your trip starts and stops exactly next to the train station and that there is a non-delayed train available precisely at the right time.

by IMTDb 4y ago

This is assuming that your trip starts and stops exactly next to the train station and that there is a non-delayed train available precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly. Car trip will look like: 1. Travel from start to location (3:20) 2. Find parking (0:5) 3. Walk from parking to location (0:10) Total time of 3:35 Your train trip will look like: 1. Go from start to train station (0:20) 2. Wait for train (0:10) 3. Train to Berlin (1:50) 4. Train station to location (0:20) 5. Wait at location because there was no better train (1:00) Total time of 3:40. It stil might be worth it to use the train, as you can work/read in the train which you can't do in a car. But for the train to be working it needs planets to be aligned: start location must be within reasonable distance to train station; end location must be within reasonable distance to train station; train travel speed is significantly faster than cars; train schedule is aligned with desired arrival time. If any of these conditions are not met, the train option does not work

smlacy 4y ago
I'm not sure what "Wait at location because there was no better train" means? Are you massuming a 3h40m trip for a specific time-based appointment? I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important.
- ivan_gammel 4y ago
  Let’s say you have an appointment at location 15 minutes away from train station at 9:00 and your train arrives at 7:45. You will have to wait for 1 hour and probably spend this time unproductively and maybe even at extra cost (e.g. you choose to get a cup of coffee and a sandwich in a restaurant nearby).
  - LosWochosWeek 4y ago
    Yeah, if you plan your appointment at a place 300km away willy nilly without checking the train schedule and if you plan your car drive in a way that you dont plan for any congestions leaving Hamburg, on the Autobahn, entering Berlin (good luck!), then yeah: The car is more expensive, more tiring, and slower. But get this: Instead of having an hour you can spend at your destination to your liking, you get to use that extra hour driving your car! Congratulations! Sorry but that has to be the most contrived and ridicilous statement I've ever read. And this is coming from someone -- me -- who owns two cars, lives in Berlin and practically never uses public transportation.
    - nottorp 4y ago
      I believe the OP who started this is not familiar with public transport travel.
    - ivan_gammel 4y ago
      In many cases you are absolutely right, the appointment times can be adjusted according to train schedule, destinations are nice places where you can find something to do in between etc. Public transportation in Germany in most cases is better than cars (I do not even have driving license for that reason - never needed it). Still, the calculation logic is right: when you travel somewhere to be there at certain time, you need to include some buffers in your planning, both for trains and for cars. Every 4th train in Germany arrives with delays and not every appointment can be planned for your convenience.
  - cjrp 4y ago
    If I was driving I'd aim to arrive pretty early too (random traffic happens).
  - usr1106 4y ago
    > even at extra cost (e.g. you choose to get a cup of coffee and a sandwich in a restaurant nearby). That's the pessimist's view. The optimist wanders around and randomly finds a place they would never have found otherwise. I mostly do the first. Sometimes I find something truly interesting. Sometimes not, but I don't think the unproductivity you mention has harmed me. (Yes, occasionally I absolutely have to hack something, so I search the first place where I can use my laptop. But I try to avoid that in all but the most familiar cities.)
  - rurban 4y ago
    If I have an appointment, I'll rather take the train, be rested and have enough time in the train to prepare for the meeting. all the trains have wifi and power. In Germany the trains are also faster than cars on the Autobahn, even if I theoretically could drive 180km/h. All my travels from Dresden to Berlin, Leipzig or Frankfurt are faster by train than by car. ICE only. Now with this offer, the slow RE trains only, it's slower than by car, but still more attractive. Just if I have a meeting far outside a big town, and bad connections (say the bus only goes every 30min) and I have to walk 10min, I'll take the car. For my next travel to the Leipzig Kanupark I'll take the car, but all other business and leisure trips are by train. For the last 3 years already.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
      Metronom from Hamburg to Bremen does 160kph in their DOSTOS on the so called "Rollbahn". Which count as RE/RB, so are usable with this €9 thing. Short 3.5 minutes Docu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOL0MZQiELI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOL0MZQiELI Long Cab ride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg608B6CgC4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg608B6CgC4 Track: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanne-Eickel%E2%80%93Hamburg_railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanne-Eickel%E2%80%93Hamburg_r...
  - midasuni 4y ago
    Why not take the train that leaves half an hour later?
    - ivan_gammel 4y ago
      1. Such train may not exist. 2. Train at more convenient time could be fully booked. 3. Train at more convenient time could be significantly more expensive.
- IMTDb 4y ago
  > I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important. OP was explicitly comparing car and trains, not flight and trains. If that's the case, then we are more in the context of a "city trip", and Hamburg -> Berlin might not be the most representative case. Something along the line of Hamburg -> Rome is more accurate as people usually like more change of scenery. Flight from Hamburg to Rome is 2:20 and train is 19 hours. Even accounting for airport wait time, the difference is ridiculous. The issue for passenger transport with rails is that it's not good for small distances as cars have the advantage because of the added convince/flexibility, and for long distances, flight is better due to speed. For freight, however, train is amazing as these extra hours don't matter too much and the reduction in emissions is massive. The issue is that there aren't that many dedicated cargo flights. Most cargo revenue come from transporting freight in the holds of passenger jets. So moving cargo from flights to trains does not lead to a direct reduction in CO2 emission since those planes are going to fly anyway.
  - SoftTalker 4y ago
    > Most cargo revenue come from transporting freight in the holds of passenger jets. Is this really true? DHL, FedEx, and UPS (and Amazon?) all operate their own freight aircraft. There are also contract freight operators. Most major airports have an entire area that is exclusively for freight operations. Yes some freight does go in the holds of passenger jets, but is it "most" or even close?
    - tyrfing 4y ago
      Roughly half of air freight is carried on passenger planes. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/air-freight-prices.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/air-freight-prices.ht...
    - inferiorhuman 4y ago
      Yes, and during the pandemic when passenger traffic cratered passenger airlines started putting additional cargo in the passenger cabin. China started cracking down on that recently though (unsure why). Freight is generally far more profitable than passengers.
Beltiras 4y ago
Finding parking is hilariously underestimated for any metro area I've been to.
- andi999 4y ago
  Surrender and find the cheapest parkhaus before you go.
- s0rce 4y ago
  Also, I find parking exceedingly annoying, vastly worse than waiting around.
- s0rce 4y ago
  Also, I find parking exceedingly annoying, vastly worse than waiting around.
- rawbot 4y ago
  Trying to find parking on the sidewalk can be impossible at times, but in most cities and towns in Germany, there's always a private parking lot nearby (max. 10 minute walk to most stuff). Worst case, like in the outskirts or smaller towns, you can just park in the parking lot of a big supermarket for 2 hours for free.
Pamar 4y ago
I, too, have some questions about your 1:00 waiting due to "no better train being available" I am familiar only with Italian and German trains (i.e. use these regularly, but occasionally I also used trains in/to Austria, Luxembourg, Hungary). You seem to think that in order to go to Berlin by train someone living, say, in Rostock, first goes to the station then looks when the next available train departs. In reality you can just use apps on your phone to get not only a timetable of departures but also find out how long it will take for you to get to the station using public transportation. Example: this Sunday I go visit friends near Hamburg. I have booked a 7:08am train already (with iPhone) and on Sunday morning, depending when I am ready, I can walk to the station (25 mins) or look what bus to take and at what time from the nearest bus stop (5 mins from home).
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  The parent's point is that if you actually wanted to get there at any time other than exactly when the 7:08a train arrives, say because you have an appointment at a set time, then you're going to end up having a wait somewhere along your journey because the train wasn't on your ideal schedule. For example, if that train arrives at 10:08a, say, and the next train is the 9:09a which arrives at 12:09a, and you had an 11:00a appointment, you're going to wait 45 minutes at your destination because you couldn't arrive closer to the target time.
  - logifail 4y ago
    > The parent's point is that if you actually wanted to get there at any time other than exactly when the 7:08a train arrives, say because you have an appointment at a set time, then you're going to end up having a wait somewhere along your journey because the train wasn't on your ideal schedule. If you're travelling a significant distance by car for an appointment at a fixed time, don't you have to allow extra time for traffic? (Depending on just how much traffic there might be) if the roads are "normal" you might well end up arriving at the destination 30 mins or even 45 mins early?
    - codefreeordie 4y ago
jupp0r 4y ago
You are making the assumption that it's one person traveling. If I imagine me traveling with my family, then the tradeoffs would look quite different: 1. There's only one driver in the car, so all other passengers could still work/read during the drive. 2. The cost is split. With three kids and two parents, the cost would be 45 EUR vs 50 EUR traveling with a somewhat fuel efficient car with an internal combustion engine. This is only fuel price and deprecation of the car is not accounted for and would be more. 3. The stress of switching trains multiple times with small kids, putting clothes on in the cold, making sure they don't bump into people, etc can totally negate any "you don't have to navigate traffic" benefits. 4. You usually don't travel from main railway station in city A to main railway station in city B. Getting to your actual destination can also be a slow and complicated affair with public transportation, especially in conjunction with 5. 5. Luggage can be problematic. If you are traveling with children, moving multiple heavy suitcases from one train to another while simultaneously taking care of kids can be a nightmare.
- coffeeblack 4y ago
  That’s what happens when ideological truth and real world truth collide.
- inferiorhuman 4y ago
  As someone who generally prefers public transit to driving (especially in a foreign country - a lot will depend on where you're traveling. I usually travel solo but think in general it would scale pretty well. Of course if your kids are poorly behaved then it'll be more of a challenge. I think having some familiarity with the infrastructure can go a long way into making the trip easier. Knowing where platforms are, which stations are easier to transfer at, etc. 2 – Don't forget road tolls, parking, and surprise maintenance. 3 – The most consistent "pain point" I've seen with transferring is simply walking from platform to platform. I can only think of a handful of stations that I'd actually consider difficult (e.g. BART's Millbrae and Madrid's Atocha station). 4 – Again, parking. In most big cities you're not going to roll right up to your destination and park. 5 – My experience has been it's as difficult as you make it. Hell I saw someone bring a refrigerator on Muni. Some places like Japan have low cost courier services that entirely negate the need to bring luggage with you. Just drop it off with the courier at the airport and have it sent to the hotel or nearest 7-11. In other places you'll find luggage racks or areas on the trains. Alternatively, pack less stuff. If you're traveling by car and need to use a rooftop box don't forget the hefty fuel consumption penalty.
Reason077 4y ago
> "It stil might be worth it to use the train, as you can work/read in the train which you can't do in a car." Also, at €9 for a ticket that lasts a month, you're going to save an awful lot of money compared to taking the car.
- dathinab 4y ago
  Yes I mean a 4-bundle of "single one direction" tickets in Berlin (limited to inside of Berlin, not even including the Airport) costs 9.40... A Uber/Taxi also easily costs more then 9€ even for short distances.
  - yifanl 4y ago
    Yes, but, for the tourists who dont know, they dont actually check you used a ticket every trip ;) Source: just came back from a week long trip to Berlin and I still have 2/4 tickets unused.
    - dathinab 4y ago
      Yes but if they catch you it cost like 60€ or so and legally counts as uh trespassing I think not that the BVG will bother to sue or anything. So for locals it's still a grate deal. And the tickets show how long they have been active, so activating them when you see they check might not pass at all (depending on the person checking, the often let it pass anyway).
      - Reason077 4y ago
        They're not so lenient if you're black, apparently. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/22/in-no-city-have-i-felt-as-unsafe-as-berlin-opera-singer-sues-metro-over-racism-claims https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/22/in-no-city-hav...
        dathinab 4y ago
        I can't juge this. But I have seen multiple cases of Ticket controlling sub-contractors acting out of line against Berlin citizens you could describe of "looking German" ("looking German" from the POV of a potential racist person, not mine POV). I also have seen people acting out of line against the ticket controlling sub-contractors, including in the way the contractors claimed the black person did. But also worse. Like to a point where I was surprised the contractor kept calm and half expected needing to step in. Because many people would have lost it if "insulted" to that degree. The increased tension between contractors and citizens in recent was the reason they changed their policy recently (for some time? still ongoing? idk.) to no longer have the subcontractors wear civil clothes even through it means they will miss more people without tickets. I also have seen more security people (which job does not include controlling tickets, luckily this is kept separate).
consp 4y ago
You should add at least one 15 min car stop. After an hour or two you are not focused anymore.
- MandieD 4y ago
  Driving on Autobahn sections without speed restrictions, especially when I do let loose and go past 160 km/h, requires so much concentration that I usually turn the stereo off. There’s an old joke that BMW engineers couldn’t understand why they should add a cup holder.
  - rawbot 4y ago
    Last BMW I carshared still didn't have a cup holder, so I guess the joke is still relevant.
    - CRConrad 4y ago
      Maybe it was just very cleverly and elegantly hidden? Saw some Doug de Muro review, I think it was of a BMW (or could have been some VW group brand), recently and he was all "I bet 90% of owners don't even know they have this cup holder here!"
anonyfox 4y ago
Also remember we’re talking Autobahn here! Gmaps assumes upto 130kp/h… depending on your car and driving style you could drive 200kp/h++ (at least partially when there’s no speed limit) -> I’d challenge the 3:20h driving time, would probably more like 2:30h in ideal conditions
- x3ro 4y ago
  I’ve driven this route many times, and it’s quite unrealistic to expect you would ever get much higher than 140km/h on average, except during the night from 00:00 to 06:00 or so. Since it’s mostly 2 lanes, you’ll almost always have people slowing you down to about 120-130.
- jupp0r 4y ago
  The ability to do that will be highly traffic dependent. In practice, driving that fast when possible doesn't shave more than a few minutes time off the overall travel duration from my own experience.
  - hef19898 4y ago
    Jep, one minor traffic jam and all the cars you passed at 200 kmh catch up to you. As you do with all those that passed you at 250 kmh. I have that experience multiple times a week. Generally driving at around 130 kmh seems to be a sweet spot, and is by the way the recommended speed on the German Autobahn. It is also much more relaxed. Not that driving fast isn't fun, it is, but going fast in straight lane is among the easiest things to do.
- Xylakant 4y ago
  Having travelled Hamburg-Berlin for more than two years: A 130 km/h average is very optimistic on that route unless you travel in the middle of the night. Large distances are speed limited to less and large chunks are 2 lanes with lots of traffic. Not to speak of construction sites and traffic jams. I usually took the train and would constantly beat my colleagues taking the car significantly (1-2 hours)
oneplane 4y ago
I don't think anyone living in a country with reasonable public transport and uses it actually thinks that that is how it works. I get the feeling that there might be a whole lot of "it sucks in my country so you probably have a bad experience too" replies here (not yours as it's quite a clear illustration of details people might miss), and I would almost immediately assume it'll be mostly people from the US who are car-bound for their transport needs. The idea that you can life a nice and productive life and go places as you please without dring a car is very foreign to some people. Even the idea of switching it up and having some work commute by bike or bus seems like a 'poor people thing' to some people. It's weird.
- cmarschner 4y ago
  That‘s the US perspective… which is kind of an outlier, on a global scale.
nautilius 4y ago
This is assuming that your car trip starts and stops conveniently with available parking right at the point of departure and parking at the point of arrival, and that there is non-delayed traffic flow precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly. This is also assuming that with a car you never have surplus times, such as filling up gas, taking breaks from driving yourself, and let's not forget about maintenance, while we're at it. Don't get me wrong, I often prefer the car, but that post is comically one-sided.
ant6n 4y ago
> 5. Wait at location because there was no better train (1:00) Berlin-Hamburg has intercity trains approx every half hour, so on average this wait will be approx 15 minutes. Which could be filled with some useful activity, like some shopping… equivalent to going to the gas station for drivers.

by IMTDb 4y ago

smlacy 4y ago

I'm not sure what "Wait at location because there was no better train" means? Are you massuming a 3h40m trip for a specific time-based appointment? I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important.

ivan_gammel 4y ago
Let’s say you have an appointment at location 15 minutes away from train station at 9:00 and your train arrives at 7:45. You will have to wait for 1 hour and probably spend this time unproductively and maybe even at extra cost (e.g. you choose to get a cup of coffee and a sandwich in a restaurant nearby).
- LosWochosWeek 4y ago
  Yeah, if you plan your appointment at a place 300km away willy nilly without checking the train schedule and if you plan your car drive in a way that you dont plan for any congestions leaving Hamburg, on the Autobahn, entering Berlin (good luck!), then yeah: The car is more expensive, more tiring, and slower. But get this: Instead of having an hour you can spend at your destination to your liking, you get to use that extra hour driving your car! Congratulations! Sorry but that has to be the most contrived and ridicilous statement I've ever read. And this is coming from someone -- me -- who owns two cars, lives in Berlin and practically never uses public transportation.
  - nottorp 4y ago
    I believe the OP who started this is not familiar with public transport travel.
  - ivan_gammel 4y ago
    In many cases you are absolutely right, the appointment times can be adjusted according to train schedule, destinations are nice places where you can find something to do in between etc. Public transportation in Germany in most cases is better than cars (I do not even have driving license for that reason - never needed it). Still, the calculation logic is right: when you travel somewhere to be there at certain time, you need to include some buffers in your planning, both for trains and for cars. Every 4th train in Germany arrives with delays and not every appointment can be planned for your convenience.
- cjrp 4y ago
  If I was driving I'd aim to arrive pretty early too (random traffic happens).
- usr1106 4y ago
  > even at extra cost (e.g. you choose to get a cup of coffee and a sandwich in a restaurant nearby). That's the pessimist's view. The optimist wanders around and randomly finds a place they would never have found otherwise. I mostly do the first. Sometimes I find something truly interesting. Sometimes not, but I don't think the unproductivity you mention has harmed me. (Yes, occasionally I absolutely have to hack something, so I search the first place where I can use my laptop. But I try to avoid that in all but the most familiar cities.)
- rurban 4y ago
  If I have an appointment, I'll rather take the train, be rested and have enough time in the train to prepare for the meeting. all the trains have wifi and power. In Germany the trains are also faster than cars on the Autobahn, even if I theoretically could drive 180km/h. All my travels from Dresden to Berlin, Leipzig or Frankfurt are faster by train than by car. ICE only. Now with this offer, the slow RE trains only, it's slower than by car, but still more attractive. Just if I have a meeting far outside a big town, and bad connections (say the bus only goes every 30min) and I have to walk 10min, I'll take the car. For my next travel to the Leipzig Kanupark I'll take the car, but all other business and leisure trips are by train. For the last 3 years already.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 4y ago
    Metronom from Hamburg to Bremen does 160kph in their DOSTOS on the so called "Rollbahn". Which count as RE/RB, so are usable with this €9 thing. Short 3.5 minutes Docu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOL0MZQiELI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOL0MZQiELI Long Cab ride: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg608B6CgC4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zg608B6CgC4 Track: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanne-Eickel%E2%80%93Hamburg_railway https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wanne-Eickel%E2%80%93Hamburg_r...
- midasuni 4y ago
  Why not take the train that leaves half an hour later?
  - ivan_gammel 4y ago
    1. Such train may not exist. 2. Train at more convenient time could be fully booked. 3. Train at more convenient time could be significantly more expensive.
IMTDb 4y ago
> I think the use case of this kind of train is more similar to a flight with one or more nights at destination, so that the specific arrival time is not that important. OP was explicitly comparing car and trains, not flight and trains. If that's the case, then we are more in the context of a "city trip", and Hamburg -> Berlin might not be the most representative case. Something along the line of Hamburg -> Rome is more accurate as people usually like more change of scenery. Flight from Hamburg to Rome is 2:20 and train is 19 hours. Even accounting for airport wait time, the difference is ridiculous. The issue for passenger transport with rails is that it's not good for small distances as cars have the advantage because of the added convince/flexibility, and for long distances, flight is better due to speed. For freight, however, train is amazing as these extra hours don't matter too much and the reduction in emissions is massive. The issue is that there aren't that many dedicated cargo flights. Most cargo revenue come from transporting freight in the holds of passenger jets. So moving cargo from flights to trains does not lead to a direct reduction in CO2 emission since those planes are going to fly anyway.
- SoftTalker 4y ago
  > Most cargo revenue come from transporting freight in the holds of passenger jets. Is this really true? DHL, FedEx, and UPS (and Amazon?) all operate their own freight aircraft. There are also contract freight operators. Most major airports have an entire area that is exclusively for freight operations. Yes some freight does go in the holds of passenger jets, but is it "most" or even close?
  - tyrfing 4y ago
    Roughly half of air freight is carried on passenger planes. https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/air-freight-prices.htm https://www.bls.gov/opub/btn/volume-10/air-freight-prices.ht...
  - inferiorhuman 4y ago
    Yes, and during the pandemic when passenger traffic cratered passenger airlines started putting additional cargo in the passenger cabin. China started cracking down on that recently though (unsure why). Freight is generally far more profitable than passengers.

Beltiras 4y ago

Finding parking is hilariously underestimated for any metro area I've been to.

andi999 4y ago
Surrender and find the cheapest parkhaus before you go.
s0rce 4y ago
Also, I find parking exceedingly annoying, vastly worse than waiting around.
s0rce 4y ago
Also, I find parking exceedingly annoying, vastly worse than waiting around.
rawbot 4y ago
Trying to find parking on the sidewalk can be impossible at times, but in most cities and towns in Germany, there's always a private parking lot nearby (max. 10 minute walk to most stuff). Worst case, like in the outskirts or smaller towns, you can just park in the parking lot of a big supermarket for 2 hours for free.

Pamar 4y ago

I, too, have some questions about your 1:00 waiting due to "no better train being available" I am familiar only with Italian and German trains (i.e. use these regularly, but occasionally I also used trains in/to Austria, Luxembourg, Hungary). You seem to think that in order to go to Berlin by train someone living, say, in Rostock, first goes to the station then looks when the next available train departs. In reality you can just use apps on your phone to get not only a timetable of departures but also find out how long it will take for you to get to the station using public transportation. Example: this Sunday I go visit friends near Hamburg. I have booked a 7:08am train already (with iPhone) and on Sunday morning, depending when I am ready, I can walk to the station (25 mins) or look what bus to take and at what time from the nearest bus stop (5 mins from home).

codefreeordie 4y ago
The parent's point is that if you actually wanted to get there at any time other than exactly when the 7:08a train arrives, say because you have an appointment at a set time, then you're going to end up having a wait somewhere along your journey because the train wasn't on your ideal schedule. For example, if that train arrives at 10:08a, say, and the next train is the 9:09a which arrives at 12:09a, and you had an 11:00a appointment, you're going to wait 45 minutes at your destination because you couldn't arrive closer to the target time.
- logifail 4y ago
  > The parent's point is that if you actually wanted to get there at any time other than exactly when the 7:08a train arrives, say because you have an appointment at a set time, then you're going to end up having a wait somewhere along your journey because the train wasn't on your ideal schedule. If you're travelling a significant distance by car for an appointment at a fixed time, don't you have to allow extra time for traffic? (Depending on just how much traffic there might be) if the roads are "normal" you might well end up arriving at the destination 30 mins or even 45 mins early?
  - codefreeordie 4y ago

jupp0r 4y ago

You are making the assumption that it's one person traveling. If I imagine me traveling with my family, then the tradeoffs would look quite different: 1. There's only one driver in the car, so all other passengers could still work/read during the drive. 2. The cost is split. With three kids and two parents, the cost would be 45 EUR vs 50 EUR traveling with a somewhat fuel efficient car with an internal combustion engine. This is only fuel price and deprecation of the car is not accounted for and would be more. 3. The stress of switching trains multiple times with small kids, putting clothes on in the cold, making sure they don't bump into people, etc can totally negate any "you don't have to navigate traffic" benefits. 4. You usually don't travel from main railway station in city A to main railway station in city B. Getting to your actual destination can also be a slow and complicated affair with public transportation, especially in conjunction with 5. 5. Luggage can be problematic. If you are traveling with children, moving multiple heavy suitcases from one train to another while simultaneously taking care of kids can be a nightmare.

coffeeblack 4y ago
That’s what happens when ideological truth and real world truth collide.
inferiorhuman 4y ago
As someone who generally prefers public transit to driving (especially in a foreign country - a lot will depend on where you're traveling. I usually travel solo but think in general it would scale pretty well. Of course if your kids are poorly behaved then it'll be more of a challenge. I think having some familiarity with the infrastructure can go a long way into making the trip easier. Knowing where platforms are, which stations are easier to transfer at, etc. 2 – Don't forget road tolls, parking, and surprise maintenance. 3 – The most consistent "pain point" I've seen with transferring is simply walking from platform to platform. I can only think of a handful of stations that I'd actually consider difficult (e.g. BART's Millbrae and Madrid's Atocha station). 4 – Again, parking. In most big cities you're not going to roll right up to your destination and park. 5 – My experience has been it's as difficult as you make it. Hell I saw someone bring a refrigerator on Muni. Some places like Japan have low cost courier services that entirely negate the need to bring luggage with you. Just drop it off with the courier at the airport and have it sent to the hotel or nearest 7-11. In other places you'll find luggage racks or areas on the trains. Alternatively, pack less stuff. If you're traveling by car and need to use a rooftop box don't forget the hefty fuel consumption penalty.

Reason077 4y ago

> "It stil might be worth it to use the train, as you can work/read in the train which you can't do in a car." Also, at €9 for a ticket that lasts a month, you're going to save an awful lot of money compared to taking the car.

dathinab 4y ago
Yes I mean a 4-bundle of "single one direction" tickets in Berlin (limited to inside of Berlin, not even including the Airport) costs 9.40... A Uber/Taxi also easily costs more then 9€ even for short distances.
- yifanl 4y ago
  Yes, but, for the tourists who dont know, they dont actually check you used a ticket every trip ;) Source: just came back from a week long trip to Berlin and I still have 2/4 tickets unused.
  - dathinab 4y ago
    Yes but if they catch you it cost like 60€ or so and legally counts as uh trespassing I think not that the BVG will bother to sue or anything. So for locals it's still a grate deal. And the tickets show how long they have been active, so activating them when you see they check might not pass at all (depending on the person checking, the often let it pass anyway).
    - Reason077 4y ago
      They're not so lenient if you're black, apparently. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/22/in-no-city-have-i-felt-as-unsafe-as-berlin-opera-singer-sues-metro-over-racism-claims https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/may/22/in-no-city-hav...
      - dathinab 4y ago
        I can't juge this. But I have seen multiple cases of Ticket controlling sub-contractors acting out of line against Berlin citizens you could describe of "looking German" ("looking German" from the POV of a potential racist person, not mine POV). I also have seen people acting out of line against the ticket controlling sub-contractors, including in the way the contractors claimed the black person did. But also worse. Like to a point where I was surprised the contractor kept calm and half expected needing to step in. Because many people would have lost it if "insulted" to that degree. The increased tension between contractors and citizens in recent was the reason they changed their policy recently (for some time? still ongoing? idk.) to no longer have the subcontractors wear civil clothes even through it means they will miss more people without tickets. I also have seen more security people (which job does not include controlling tickets, luckily this is kept separate).

consp 4y ago

You should add at least one 15 min car stop. After an hour or two you are not focused anymore.

MandieD 4y ago
Driving on Autobahn sections without speed restrictions, especially when I do let loose and go past 160 km/h, requires so much concentration that I usually turn the stereo off. There’s an old joke that BMW engineers couldn’t understand why they should add a cup holder.
- rawbot 4y ago
  Last BMW I carshared still didn't have a cup holder, so I guess the joke is still relevant.
  - CRConrad 4y ago
    Maybe it was just very cleverly and elegantly hidden? Saw some Doug de Muro review, I think it was of a BMW (or could have been some VW group brand), recently and he was all "I bet 90% of owners don't even know they have this cup holder here!"

anonyfox 4y ago

Also remember we’re talking Autobahn here! Gmaps assumes upto 130kp/h… depending on your car and driving style you could drive 200kp/h++ (at least partially when there’s no speed limit) -> I’d challenge the 3:20h driving time, would probably more like 2:30h in ideal conditions

x3ro 4y ago
I’ve driven this route many times, and it’s quite unrealistic to expect you would ever get much higher than 140km/h on average, except during the night from 00:00 to 06:00 or so. Since it’s mostly 2 lanes, you’ll almost always have people slowing you down to about 120-130.
jupp0r 4y ago
The ability to do that will be highly traffic dependent. In practice, driving that fast when possible doesn't shave more than a few minutes time off the overall travel duration from my own experience.
- hef19898 4y ago
  Jep, one minor traffic jam and all the cars you passed at 200 kmh catch up to you. As you do with all those that passed you at 250 kmh. I have that experience multiple times a week. Generally driving at around 130 kmh seems to be a sweet spot, and is by the way the recommended speed on the German Autobahn. It is also much more relaxed. Not that driving fast isn't fun, it is, but going fast in straight lane is among the easiest things to do.
Xylakant 4y ago
Having travelled Hamburg-Berlin for more than two years: A 130 km/h average is very optimistic on that route unless you travel in the middle of the night. Large distances are speed limited to less and large chunks are 2 lanes with lots of traffic. Not to speak of construction sites and traffic jams. I usually took the train and would constantly beat my colleagues taking the car significantly (1-2 hours)

oneplane 4y ago

I don't think anyone living in a country with reasonable public transport and uses it actually thinks that that is how it works. I get the feeling that there might be a whole lot of "it sucks in my country so you probably have a bad experience too" replies here (not yours as it's quite a clear illustration of details people might miss), and I would almost immediately assume it'll be mostly people from the US who are car-bound for their transport needs. The idea that you can life a nice and productive life and go places as you please without dring a car is very foreign to some people. Even the idea of switching it up and having some work commute by bike or bus seems like a 'poor people thing' to some people. It's weird.

cmarschner 4y ago
That‘s the US perspective… which is kind of an outlier, on a global scale.

nautilius 4y ago

This is assuming that your car trip starts and stops conveniently with available parking right at the point of departure and parking at the point of arrival, and that there is non-delayed traffic flow precisely at the right time. In practice that's not the case and those time add up quickly. This is also assuming that with a car you never have surplus times, such as filling up gas, taking breaks from driving yourself, and let's not forget about maintenance, while we're at it. Don't get me wrong, I often prefer the car, but that post is comically one-sided.

ant6n 4y ago

> 5. Wait at location because there was no better train (1:00) Berlin-Hamburg has intercity trains approx every half hour, so on average this wait will be approx 15 minutes. Which could be filled with some useful activity, like some shopping… equivalent to going to the gas station for drivers.