5 ms·

I'm confused - what allows the victims to sue Tesla directly? Legally the driver bears the responsibility, no? I can see driver suing tesla for a malfunction.

I'm confused - what allows the victims to sue Tesla directly? Legally the driver bears the responsibility, no? I can see driver suing tesla for a malfunction. Can my neighbor below sue my washer manufacturer if they got flooded?

macintux 4y ago
> Legally the driver bears the responsibility, no? That’s the billion dollar question that will be relitigated for years as autonomous systems improve. No one knows.
- emteycz 4y ago
  I thought the law is very specific in this case. The responsibility is driver's except in cases when it explicitly isn't - which definitely wasn't this case as no vehicle in EU had the necessary approval when it happened, and I'm not sure, but maybe there wasn't any law whatsoever about autonomous vehicles and transfer of responsibility back then - which makes the driver unquestionably responsible. Edit: I thought this is in Germany, so I'm wrong. My bad.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - amalcon 4y ago
    The U.S. is a common law jurisdiction, which (among other things) means that when there is a novel factor involved, usually the courts are first to decide how much it matters. Autopilot was a very novel factor at this time, so the courts need to decide if it matters enough to reduce the criminal penalties. In the absence of an explicit law, that's just how it works. The driver doesn't become responsible -- responsibility becomes an open question. In civil law jurisdictions, this works differently.
  - danso 4y ago
    The families of the Sandy Hook school shooting victims sued Remington and settled for $73 million, even though Remington didn't directly sell the gun to the shooter, or violate any other laws regulating the sale of firearms: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/15/nyregion/sandy-hook-families-settlement.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/15/nyregion/sandy-hook-famil... The NYT describes the plaintiff's argument as focused on Remington's marketing strategy: > The families contended that Remington violated state law by promoting the weapon with an approach that appealed to so-called couch commandos and troubled young men like the gunman who committed the Sandy Hook massacre. > Nicole Hockley, whose 6-year-old son Dylan was killed, said the documents included in the settlement were crucial — and “paint a picture of a company that lost its way, choosing more aggressive marketing campaigns for profit.”
hwillis 4y ago
You can sue anyone for any reason.
- emteycz 4y ago
  Not in Germany. In Germany, there needs to be direct damage by the suing party done to the suing party; and criminal cases are entirely public prosecutor-driven.
  - hwillis 4y ago
    Standing is determined in the course of a suit, and this is in LA.
dfxm12 4y ago
what allows the victims to sue Tesla directly? To sue someone, you need to have incurred damages of some sort and file a complaint alleging that who you're suing is responsible. At a high level, you can sue anyone for anything. Legally the driver bears the responsibility, no? This is a really vague question. Bears the responsibility for what, exactly? Are they solely responsible? These are things that exactly get sorted out in court... Can my neighbor below sue my washer manufacturer if they got flooded? Yes.
- emteycz 4y ago
  In Germany? I don't think that's right.
  - dfxm12 4y ago
    German law tends not to apply to California.
    - emteycz 4y ago
      I got it somehow mixed up. Sorry, my bad.

macintux 4y ago

> Legally the driver bears the responsibility, no? That’s the billion dollar question that will be relitigated for years as autonomous systems improve. No one knows.

emteycz 4y ago
I thought the law is very specific in this case. The responsibility is driver's except in cases when it explicitly isn't - which definitely wasn't this case as no vehicle in EU had the necessary approval when it happened, and I'm not sure, but maybe there wasn't any law whatsoever about autonomous vehicles and transfer of responsibility back then - which makes the driver unquestionably responsible. Edit: I thought this is in Germany, so I'm wrong. My bad.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- amalcon 4y ago
  The U.S. is a common law jurisdiction, which (among other things) means that when there is a novel factor involved, usually the courts are first to decide how much it matters. Autopilot was a very novel factor at this time, so the courts need to decide if it matters enough to reduce the criminal penalties. In the absence of an explicit law, that's just how it works. The driver doesn't become responsible -- responsibility becomes an open question. In civil law jurisdictions, this works differently.
- danso 4y ago
  The families of the Sandy Hook school shooting victims sued Remington and settled for $73 million, even though Remington didn't directly sell the gun to the shooter, or violate any other laws regulating the sale of firearms: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/15/nyregion/sandy-hook-families-settlement.html https://www.nytimes.com/2022/02/15/nyregion/sandy-hook-famil... The NYT describes the plaintiff's argument as focused on Remington's marketing strategy: > The families contended that Remington violated state law by promoting the weapon with an approach that appealed to so-called couch commandos and troubled young men like the gunman who committed the Sandy Hook massacre. > Nicole Hockley, whose 6-year-old son Dylan was killed, said the documents included in the settlement were crucial — and “paint a picture of a company that lost its way, choosing more aggressive marketing campaigns for profit.”

hwillis 4y ago

You can sue anyone for any reason.

emteycz 4y ago
Not in Germany. In Germany, there needs to be direct damage by the suing party done to the suing party; and criminal cases are entirely public prosecutor-driven.
- hwillis 4y ago
  Standing is determined in the course of a suit, and this is in LA.

dfxm12 4y ago

what allows the victims to sue Tesla directly? To sue someone, you need to have incurred damages of some sort and file a complaint alleging that who you're suing is responsible. At a high level, you can sue anyone for anything. Legally the driver bears the responsibility, no? This is a really vague question. Bears the responsibility for what, exactly? Are they solely responsible? These are things that exactly get sorted out in court... Can my neighbor below sue my washer manufacturer if they got flooded? Yes.

emteycz 4y ago
In Germany? I don't think that's right.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  German law tends not to apply to California.
  - emteycz 4y ago
    I got it somehow mixed up. Sorry, my bad.