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When you bought that airplane or the autopilot system, was it advertised like this? https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot And note t

by bmitc 4y ago

When you bought that airplane or the autopilot system, was it advertised like this? https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://www.tesla.com/autopilot And note that this is the current marketing material. Edit: It's not mentioned in the article, as far as I see, but it's likely the driver was on the cell phone. It mentions the data shows the driver had their hands on the steering wheel, but that can be easily thwarted, to my understanding. The fact that they didn't brake at all implies they weren't actually holding the steering wheel, at least in a way where they were paying attention. In my opinion, both the driver and Tesla bear responsibility.

sokoloff 4y ago
I'll observe that that page contains the following text (inline and in the same font and size as the rest of the body text, not buried in a footnote somewhere): Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.
- cyphar 4y ago
  If you look at the page from the time when the incident occurred[1], there is no such text anywhere on that page. It's almost as if they added the text in response to the threat of lawsuits. The only disclaimer is: > Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. And the rest is marketing copy explicitly written to make it sound more fully-featured than it actually is. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20180211121851/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://web.archive.org/web/20180211121851/https://www.tesla...
  - shkkmo 4y ago
    But that copy explicitly notes abouy the self driving features: > It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. So while you can argue that the marketing is deceptive, that can't really be read as saying that you could let the car drive itself at that time.
- itsoktocry 4y ago
  >I'll observe that that page contains the following text Well I suppose it'll be up to the judge to determine if a relatively recently added disclaimer on the website trumps years worth of bold claims and tech demonstrations.
  - mlindner 4y ago
    Please don't invent your own history. Tesla has never actively said you should take your hands off the wheel. In fact they warn the reverse, and always have. With even more warnings added recently.
    - jazzyjackson 4y ago
      the CEO went on TV and took his hands off the wheel, I don't think there are enough disclaimers in the world to backtrack that
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - pr0zac 4y ago
      Their video on the autopilot page has a person in the driver seat not touching the wheel the entire time. I know your response is going to be oh but they never "actively said" you should take your hands off the wheel but they sure as hell very very strongly imply you should.
    - bmitc 4y ago
      That's false as evidenced by one of the other comments. That line is a new addition to that page. They also say in the video that the person is only there for legal reasons.
- bmitc 4y ago
  It sure it does. As I noted, this is their current material. Tesla has gotten in trouble with this before. However, it's buried amongst confusing and misleading diagrams and text discussing self-driving.
  - dylan604 4y ago
    Ignore it? I think it should be presented marked as Evidence A
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- jeromegv 4y ago
  And you ignore all public statements from Elon Musk Tesla can’t have it both ways. Tell everyone that they have autopilot/self driving to sell car and build hype, but then claim that the website says the opposite so there’s no problem.
  - sidibe 4y ago
    And also on the website on the most visible feature on that page suggest the person is only needing to sit in the driver's seat for legal reasons. This is absurdly misleading
- LightG 4y ago
  Oh please ...
microtherion 4y ago
But Tesla clearly says “The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons.” So it should be obvious to the driver that in court, they are on their own. /s
- dane-pgp 4y ago
  Yes, the word "only" is doing a lot of work in that sentence, and presumably the intent is for it to mean something like "culpably".

by bmitc 4y ago

sokoloff 4y ago

I'll observe that that page contains the following text (inline and in the same font and size as the rest of the body text, not buried in a footnote somewhere): Current Autopilot features require active driver supervision and do not make the vehicle autonomous.

cyphar 4y ago
If you look at the page from the time when the incident occurred[1], there is no such text anywhere on that page. It's almost as if they added the text in response to the threat of lawsuits. The only disclaimer is: > Please note that Self-Driving functionality is dependent upon extensive software validation and regulatory approval, which may vary widely by jurisdiction. And the rest is marketing copy explicitly written to make it sound more fully-featured than it actually is. [1]: https://web.archive.org/web/20180211121851/https://www.tesla.com/autopilot https://web.archive.org/web/20180211121851/https://www.tesla...
- shkkmo 4y ago
  But that copy explicitly notes abouy the self driving features: > It is not possible to know exactly when each element of the functionality described above will be available, as this is highly dependent on local regulatory approval. So while you can argue that the marketing is deceptive, that can't really be read as saying that you could let the car drive itself at that time.
itsoktocry 4y ago
>I'll observe that that page contains the following text Well I suppose it'll be up to the judge to determine if a relatively recently added disclaimer on the website trumps years worth of bold claims and tech demonstrations.
- mlindner 4y ago
  Please don't invent your own history. Tesla has never actively said you should take your hands off the wheel. In fact they warn the reverse, and always have. With even more warnings added recently.
  - jazzyjackson 4y ago
    the CEO went on TV and took his hands off the wheel, I don't think there are enough disclaimers in the world to backtrack that
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - pr0zac 4y ago
    Their video on the autopilot page has a person in the driver seat not touching the wheel the entire time. I know your response is going to be oh but they never "actively said" you should take your hands off the wheel but they sure as hell very very strongly imply you should.
  - bmitc 4y ago
    That's false as evidenced by one of the other comments. That line is a new addition to that page. They also say in the video that the person is only there for legal reasons.
bmitc 4y ago
It sure it does. As I noted, this is their current material. Tesla has gotten in trouble with this before. However, it's buried amongst confusing and misleading diagrams and text discussing self-driving.
- dylan604 4y ago
  Ignore it? I think it should be presented marked as Evidence A
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jeromegv 4y ago
And you ignore all public statements from Elon Musk Tesla can’t have it both ways. Tell everyone that they have autopilot/self driving to sell car and build hype, but then claim that the website says the opposite so there’s no problem.
- sidibe 4y ago
  And also on the website on the most visible feature on that page suggest the person is only needing to sit in the driver's seat for legal reasons. This is absurdly misleading
LightG 4y ago
Oh please ...

microtherion 4y ago

But Tesla clearly says “The person in the driver's seat is only there for legal reasons.” So it should be obvious to the driver that in court, they are on their own. /s

dane-pgp 4y ago
Yes, the word "only" is doing a lot of work in that sentence, and presumably the intent is for it to mean something like "culpably".