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Related: We're a Czech couple, currently planning our vacation in the Netherlands, and we too are on a very tight budget. I wanted so bad to get there by train

Related: We're a Czech couple, currently planning our vacation in the Netherlands, and we too are on a very tight budget. I wanted so bad to get there by train and spend the week there riding Dutch trains all over the place, but man, the train journey there and back is just as long as a car trip (~10-12 hours) and costs at least twice as much. Looks like we'll be taking our 50 MPG car instead and since it will be there with us, also using it to get around the country. Sorry about the pollution.

RektBoy 4y ago
- sdoering 4y ago
  You lost me at "EU green-madness". It could have otherwise been a valid pov but this definitely changed the territory for me.
- master-lincoln 4y ago
  The train will go independently of utilization so no matter how few seats are occupied, using a car instead will lead to more emissions (noise, particles from tires, exhaust gases incl. CO2). Why do you think taking a taxi to/from a train station makes the whole trip take more emissions than taking a car for the whole ride? Which other factors would need to be counted in? I honestly can not imagine a scenario where using a car is better for the environment than using a train... > Please don't push this EU green-madness. Please make an argument that your position should not be considered madness. I am myself not taking a train very often, but that is because it's often more expensive than using my car, less flexible and not as comfortable (mostly because I don't feel comfortable around strangers).
- owenversteeg 4y ago
  You may be surprised to know that this is actually something people have thought about; turns out you would need extremely low utilization of the train, plus a very long journey at each end by car, plus one of the more inefficient train routes, for it to lose to the car or the plane. High speed trains are generally the least efficient in CO2/passenger km, so if you’re looking to put this together then I would recommend France’s excellent analysis of their carbon output on their routes. As one example, the Paris-Geneva TGV Lyria is 3.5 kg co2e per person per trip on an average utilization train. [0] Driving is 149 kg co2e per vehicle; average occupancy is 1.12 to 1.6 people per car but let’s be generous to your idea and say we have a full average Swiss family of 2.3 people along for the ride. So driving is 64.7 kg co2e per person. It’s a 5.5 hour drive, so let’s be very favorable to the car again and say they have a 1 hour taxi ride at each destination. You’re now at a total of 23.2kg taxi + 3.5kg train = 26.7kg total, or half that of driving; as you can see even a 10x capacity reduction in the train would still make the train more efficient. It’s remarkably hard to beat a train with anything other than a bus, and you’ll need a fairly efficient bus and a fairly inefficient train for that. [0] https://www.tgv-lyria.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/tgv-lyria-infras-carbon-footprint-2020.pdf https://www.tgv-lyria.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/t...
- Scarblac 4y ago
  In the Netherlands, almost all train stations have bicycles for rent for 4.15 euro per day. You have one in minutes (uses the same card as paying for the train does). And there are bicycle paths everywhere. No need to take a taxi after taking a train.
AndyMcConachie 4y ago
Have you considered long distance buses from something like Flixbus? I live in Rotterdam and see them coming into the central station from all over Europe.
- notagoodidea 4y ago
  Any travel by Flixbus longer than 6 - 8h is really painful imho, they are not really long-distance bus. They are nice for cheap big city hopping. Of course a lot of people do use them for longer trips but honestly, I don't know anyone that arrive from a long distance bus rested tbh also.
- tasuki 4y ago
  I'm Czech. When I lived in Amsterdam, my sister came to visit by Flixbus. She's used to all kinds of travel, but boy was she destroyed by that journey...
  - kzrdude 4y ago
    Some people can sleep on such buses. I for sure can't. So I always prefer to go by bus over daytime (wasting a day) instead of the night (ruining both the night and the next day).
pheelicks 4y ago
Take the night train via Regensburg (book via cd.cz) and arrive rested. Goes every Thursday
- tasuki 4y ago
  Night trains are great! Do you have to transfer in Regensburg? There used to be a direct Prague-Amsterdam night train going through Berlin. I met some weird people on it, great times :)
  - ant6n 4y ago
    There’s a startup (European sleeper) that wants to revive that route. Perhaps this fall.
belter 4y ago
Now you know why so many still use the car in the Netherlands. "Dutch public transport is the most expensive in Europe": https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/dutch-public-transport-most-expensive-europe https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/dutch-pu...
- rjsw 4y ago
  > Dutch public transport is the most expensive in Europe Only because the UK is no longer in the EU.
  - belter 4y ago
    "Transport in the Netherlands is 35% more expensive than the European average, putting it top of the ranking, above Denmark and the UK, broadcaster RTL said. The figures were released in mid December and relate to 2017. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/01/dutch-transport-services-are-most-expensive-in-the-eu/ https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/01/dutch-transport-servic...
- gattilorenz 4y ago
  > Dutch public transport is the most expensive in Europe" Yes. On the other hand, the comparison in frequency, punctuality and cleanliness between the cheap Italian regional trains and the average Dutch ones clearly favors, and by a large margin, The Netherlands. This might have an impact on the costs :)
  - BlargMcLarg 4y ago
    Don't think anyone disputes that. What they will say is how Tokyo still one-ups any major city in The Netherlands at a fraction of the price. GP is still very much right that The Netherlands, while being better, isn't good enough yet for most people to get rid of cars. >cleanliness Eh.. they certainly aren't clean here.
    - simlan 4y ago
NicoJuicy 4y ago
Prague - Amsterdam by bus 13:30 hours - 120 € Look up Flixbus. It's slow, but cheap.
- nixass 4y ago
  To spend 13.5hrs in Flixbus, dear god..
  - tawm 4y ago
    Definitely take a shower right before departure. Your ass will thank you.
  - virtualritz 4y ago
    I regularly take long distance flights. FlixBus seats, when reclined, are on par with economy seats in any airline I used. But FlixBus seats have considerable more legroom. Also the bus takes breaks on journeys that last for that many hours. Even some of the direct FlixBuses Berlin–Hamburg (3.5hs) take a 5min break at a petrol station somewhere in the middle of the journey.
- Reason077 4y ago
  You could also buy this €9 ticket, go to a Czech border town, and take DB trains all the way to the Netherlands. For example, you could do Decin (Czech) to Glanerbrug (Netherlands) in 12.5 hours with only 7 changes, all on RB/RE and S-Bahn trains. Of course, that's still going to be a long journey, but you can break it up anywhere you want and stay at cheap hotels in random German towns along the way that you otherwise would never have considered visiting!
- siva7 4y ago
  13.5 hours in a flixbus could be considered torture
- Toutouxc 4y ago
  Somehow that didn't occur to me. It's much cheaper than a train, but it's also a bit slower than a car and it costs roughly as much as the fuel (no wear and tear though). So a bit cheaper overall. Buuut... I was on a school trip to the UK once where I spent 13 hours on a bus and I remember hating every second of it. Well, we'll consider it :)
gomox 4y ago
My experience with a car in the Netherlands was MISERABLE with respect to parking, and generally dealing with having a car (parking is not only expensive but also very limited, and time-constrained, so your lovely parking spot it took you 45 minutes to find and is a 10 min walk from where you are staying is only good until 7:30 AM).
- t0mas88 4y ago
  This really depends on your frame of reference and where in the Netherlands you're going. Having worked in both London and Amsterdam I think there are many more public parking garage options in Amsterdam and non of those are time limited. Just expensive, but even that is relative since London and most bigger US cities are much more expensive to park in. If you want low cost, park in a P+R garage outside the city and you get a free train/tram/metro ticket into the city.

RektBoy 4y ago

sdoering 4y ago
You lost me at "EU green-madness". It could have otherwise been a valid pov but this definitely changed the territory for me.
master-lincoln 4y ago
The train will go independently of utilization so no matter how few seats are occupied, using a car instead will lead to more emissions (noise, particles from tires, exhaust gases incl. CO2). Why do you think taking a taxi to/from a train station makes the whole trip take more emissions than taking a car for the whole ride? Which other factors would need to be counted in? I honestly can not imagine a scenario where using a car is better for the environment than using a train... > Please don't push this EU green-madness. Please make an argument that your position should not be considered madness. I am myself not taking a train very often, but that is because it's often more expensive than using my car, less flexible and not as comfortable (mostly because I don't feel comfortable around strangers).
owenversteeg 4y ago
You may be surprised to know that this is actually something people have thought about; turns out you would need extremely low utilization of the train, plus a very long journey at each end by car, plus one of the more inefficient train routes, for it to lose to the car or the plane. High speed trains are generally the least efficient in CO2/passenger km, so if you’re looking to put this together then I would recommend France’s excellent analysis of their carbon output on their routes. As one example, the Paris-Geneva TGV Lyria is 3.5 kg co2e per person per trip on an average utilization train. [0] Driving is 149 kg co2e per vehicle; average occupancy is 1.12 to 1.6 people per car but let’s be generous to your idea and say we have a full average Swiss family of 2.3 people along for the ride. So driving is 64.7 kg co2e per person. It’s a 5.5 hour drive, so let’s be very favorable to the car again and say they have a 1 hour taxi ride at each destination. You’re now at a total of 23.2kg taxi + 3.5kg train = 26.7kg total, or half that of driving; as you can see even a 10x capacity reduction in the train would still make the train more efficient. It’s remarkably hard to beat a train with anything other than a bus, and you’ll need a fairly efficient bus and a fairly inefficient train for that. [0] https://www.tgv-lyria.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/tgv-lyria-infras-carbon-footprint-2020.pdf https://www.tgv-lyria.com/sites/default/files/inline-files/t...
Scarblac 4y ago
In the Netherlands, almost all train stations have bicycles for rent for 4.15 euro per day. You have one in minutes (uses the same card as paying for the train does). And there are bicycle paths everywhere. No need to take a taxi after taking a train.

AndyMcConachie 4y ago

Have you considered long distance buses from something like Flixbus? I live in Rotterdam and see them coming into the central station from all over Europe.

notagoodidea 4y ago
Any travel by Flixbus longer than 6 - 8h is really painful imho, they are not really long-distance bus. They are nice for cheap big city hopping. Of course a lot of people do use them for longer trips but honestly, I don't know anyone that arrive from a long distance bus rested tbh also.
tasuki 4y ago
I'm Czech. When I lived in Amsterdam, my sister came to visit by Flixbus. She's used to all kinds of travel, but boy was she destroyed by that journey...
- kzrdude 4y ago
  Some people can sleep on such buses. I for sure can't. So I always prefer to go by bus over daytime (wasting a day) instead of the night (ruining both the night and the next day).

pheelicks 4y ago

Take the night train via Regensburg (book via cd.cz) and arrive rested. Goes every Thursday

tasuki 4y ago
Night trains are great! Do you have to transfer in Regensburg? There used to be a direct Prague-Amsterdam night train going through Berlin. I met some weird people on it, great times :)
- ant6n 4y ago
  There’s a startup (European sleeper) that wants to revive that route. Perhaps this fall.

belter 4y ago

Now you know why so many still use the car in the Netherlands. "Dutch public transport is the most expensive in Europe": https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/dutch-public-transport-most-expensive-europe https://www.iamexpat.nl/expat-info/dutch-expat-news/dutch-pu...

rjsw 4y ago
> Dutch public transport is the most expensive in Europe Only because the UK is no longer in the EU.
- belter 4y ago
  "Transport in the Netherlands is 35% more expensive than the European average, putting it top of the ranking, above Denmark and the UK, broadcaster RTL said. The figures were released in mid December and relate to 2017. https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/01/dutch-transport-services-are-most-expensive-in-the-eu/ https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/01/dutch-transport-servic...
gattilorenz 4y ago
> Dutch public transport is the most expensive in Europe" Yes. On the other hand, the comparison in frequency, punctuality and cleanliness between the cheap Italian regional trains and the average Dutch ones clearly favors, and by a large margin, The Netherlands. This might have an impact on the costs :)
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Don't think anyone disputes that. What they will say is how Tokyo still one-ups any major city in The Netherlands at a fraction of the price. GP is still very much right that The Netherlands, while being better, isn't good enough yet for most people to get rid of cars. >cleanliness Eh.. they certainly aren't clean here.
  - simlan 4y ago

NicoJuicy 4y ago

Prague - Amsterdam by bus 13:30 hours - 120 € Look up Flixbus. It's slow, but cheap.

nixass 4y ago
To spend 13.5hrs in Flixbus, dear god..
- tawm 4y ago
  Definitely take a shower right before departure. Your ass will thank you.
- virtualritz 4y ago
  I regularly take long distance flights. FlixBus seats, when reclined, are on par with economy seats in any airline I used. But FlixBus seats have considerable more legroom. Also the bus takes breaks on journeys that last for that many hours. Even some of the direct FlixBuses Berlin–Hamburg (3.5hs) take a 5min break at a petrol station somewhere in the middle of the journey.
Reason077 4y ago
You could also buy this €9 ticket, go to a Czech border town, and take DB trains all the way to the Netherlands. For example, you could do Decin (Czech) to Glanerbrug (Netherlands) in 12.5 hours with only 7 changes, all on RB/RE and S-Bahn trains. Of course, that's still going to be a long journey, but you can break it up anywhere you want and stay at cheap hotels in random German towns along the way that you otherwise would never have considered visiting!
siva7 4y ago
13.5 hours in a flixbus could be considered torture
Toutouxc 4y ago
Somehow that didn't occur to me. It's much cheaper than a train, but it's also a bit slower than a car and it costs roughly as much as the fuel (no wear and tear though). So a bit cheaper overall. Buuut... I was on a school trip to the UK once where I spent 13 hours on a bus and I remember hating every second of it. Well, we'll consider it :)

gomox 4y ago

My experience with a car in the Netherlands was MISERABLE with respect to parking, and generally dealing with having a car (parking is not only expensive but also very limited, and time-constrained, so your lovely parking spot it took you 45 minutes to find and is a 10 min walk from where you are staying is only good until 7:30 AM).

t0mas88 4y ago
This really depends on your frame of reference and where in the Netherlands you're going. Having worked in both London and Amsterdam I think there are many more public parking garage options in Amsterdam and non of those are time limited. Just expensive, but even that is relative since London and most bigger US cities are much more expensive to park in. If you want low cost, park in a P+R garage outside the city and you get a free train/tram/metro ticket into the city.