I completely agree! As a "framework-less" Java developer where I had written apps with 100k+ LOC, the application code is always separated from the web layer.

I completely agree! As a "framework-less" Java developer where I had written apps with 100k+ LOC, the application code is always separated from the web layer. When I started Rails I scratched my head for days trying to figure where the application code should reside. I hope this turns into a best practice.