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You missed the point. I'm not qualifying the information released, I'm qualifying his treason. I'm not commenting on the constitutionality of mass surveillance.

You missed the point. I'm not qualifying the information released, I'm qualifying his treason. I'm not commenting on the constitutionality of mass surveillance. He went about it the wrong way, then ran like a coward and hid like chicken little. Of course Snowden isn't going to admit he handed over intel to the Russians or Chinese, but it's most likely he did. Hence he's safe from justice today, right. Believe more in your hero though. I like my heroes to have an ounce of manhood and bravery like Russia's Navalny. Edward wouldn't have 1/1000th the struggle that man has faced. We could poison him, give him cancer, anything. He's not safe. He's just blessed to have been a traitor of America, rather than a totalitarian society like the one he resides in now. And yes, I do consider the ACLU more qualified to handle any potential US gov't abuses of Snowden. There won't be any. He's just a traitor and a coward in hiding. Hiding behind the same cheap rhetoric here about "unfairness". Yet he trusts the Russian system. You can't make this stuff up. But here you are.

user3939382 4y ago
> He went about it the wrong way If you wouldn't mind, please explain the right way. He went to his superiors first, was told to shut up and go back to work. Even when he released the black and white evidence, James Clapper stood in front of Congress and lied about the programs under oath. > ran like a coward and hid Not before, but after you're in his shoes, where you have US intelligence trying to figure out how to rendition you to a CIA blacksite and have you unpersoned and murdered, you can judge his wish to stay alive. If he was a coward, he would have ignored the crimes the government was paying him to participate in like all the other people he worked with at the NSA. > it's most likely he did I'd argue the opposite. If his goal was to ferret intelligence to foreign countries he wouldn't have released anything to the press, the two actions are completely at odds. > I like my heroes to have an ounce of manhood and bravery He risked his life, and gave up everything he had, to expose these crimes to try and help his countrymen. That's enough manhood and bravery for me. > I do consider the ACLU more qualified to handle any potential US gov't abuses of Snowden The government is abusing Snowden without help from the ACLU right this moment by seeking his prosecution. You seem to have a very mistaken impression of the power of the ACLU. > He's just a traitor He literally did nothing to justify that label. The only traitors in this story are the people working for the NSA participating in these crimes against the American people. > Yet he trusts the Russian system. You can't make this stuff up. But here you are. You have strong opinions yet are uninformed. Snowden is in Russia because that's where he was during a flight layover at the moment the US State Department canceled his passport making it impossible for him to leave the country. If you're so angry he's in Russia (why would you care?) you can thank the US State Department.
- BuckRogers 4y ago
  The ACLU point was that they would watch for any injustice with a more astute mind and eye than you or anyone else here has. I don't think you have to worry about alerting HN about Edward's unfair treatment at the hands of the US government. I think there are coalitions of lawyers that will be releasing press statements if something were wrong. There won't be. It's all excuses to enable a criminal to continue his run on the lam. The right way is however you feel is best, without running from the consequences under the justice system. I already said it a few times here, look to real patriots. George Washington, William Wallace, Alexei Navalny. Some had worse ends than others, all stood their ground till the end in what they believed. All men whose spirit will burn in the hearts of men forever. I know Snowden's story. His passport doesn't bar him from returning home, and he's not helpless in Russia. He can leave, he chooses to stay. He either has or is still seeking a Russian passport which says it all. Forgoes American justice for Russian servitude. There's your personal hero. The boat sailed on that guy, your depiction of him sounds like someone years ago before he engaged in a full speed sprint from justice. He has exposed himself for what he is. Just accept that the story continued to evolve on him and people see it. And the good news: the US will treat him fairly, and won't assassinate him. We could, easily. He ran from the world's longest standing democracy. Bad news: he's a Russian. That government poisons you just for speaking in public. Most people there wouldn't dare speak their views outside of their kitchen table. Irony for your "freedom fighter" will be given they despise traitors so when he pushes the wrong button, they murder him.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    > watch for any injustice with a more astute mind What you seem to be missing is the fact that Snowden shouldn't be being prosecuted at all. He should be protected by the Whistleblower Protection Act. He shouldn't be "hiding" or "running" or whatever you'd like to call it because there shouldn't be anything to run or hide from. The second the evidence he presented was looked into the DOJ should have immediately dropped any charges against him, he should have been pardoned to protect him from any future prosecution, and he should have been awarded the medal of honor. You're starting from this flawed premise that he needs to "face the music for his crimes" which is just completely fallacious. I couldn't care less what country he's in, again not the point. The point is the US doubled down on its crimes by not only committing them but illegally trying to prosecute someone who exposed them. For whatever reason or axe you have to grind you refuse to recognize any of that.

user3939382 4y ago

> He went about it the wrong way If you wouldn't mind, please explain the right way. He went to his superiors first, was told to shut up and go back to work. Even when he released the black and white evidence, James Clapper stood in front of Congress and lied about the programs under oath. > ran like a coward and hid Not before, but after you're in his shoes, where you have US intelligence trying to figure out how to rendition you to a CIA blacksite and have you unpersoned and murdered, you can judge his wish to stay alive. If he was a coward, he would have ignored the crimes the government was paying him to participate in like all the other people he worked with at the NSA. > it's most likely he did I'd argue the opposite. If his goal was to ferret intelligence to foreign countries he wouldn't have released anything to the press, the two actions are completely at odds. > I like my heroes to have an ounce of manhood and bravery He risked his life, and gave up everything he had, to expose these crimes to try and help his countrymen. That's enough manhood and bravery for me. > I do consider the ACLU more qualified to handle any potential US gov't abuses of Snowden The government is abusing Snowden without help from the ACLU right this moment by seeking his prosecution. You seem to have a very mistaken impression of the power of the ACLU. > He's just a traitor He literally did nothing to justify that label. The only traitors in this story are the people working for the NSA participating in these crimes against the American people. > Yet he trusts the Russian system. You can't make this stuff up. But here you are. You have strong opinions yet are uninformed. Snowden is in Russia because that's where he was during a flight layover at the moment the US State Department canceled his passport making it impossible for him to leave the country. If you're so angry he's in Russia (why would you care?) you can thank the US State Department.

BuckRogers 4y ago
The ACLU point was that they would watch for any injustice with a more astute mind and eye than you or anyone else here has. I don't think you have to worry about alerting HN about Edward's unfair treatment at the hands of the US government. I think there are coalitions of lawyers that will be releasing press statements if something were wrong. There won't be. It's all excuses to enable a criminal to continue his run on the lam. The right way is however you feel is best, without running from the consequences under the justice system. I already said it a few times here, look to real patriots. George Washington, William Wallace, Alexei Navalny. Some had worse ends than others, all stood their ground till the end in what they believed. All men whose spirit will burn in the hearts of men forever. I know Snowden's story. His passport doesn't bar him from returning home, and he's not helpless in Russia. He can leave, he chooses to stay. He either has or is still seeking a Russian passport which says it all. Forgoes American justice for Russian servitude. There's your personal hero. The boat sailed on that guy, your depiction of him sounds like someone years ago before he engaged in a full speed sprint from justice. He has exposed himself for what he is. Just accept that the story continued to evolve on him and people see it. And the good news: the US will treat him fairly, and won't assassinate him. We could, easily. He ran from the world's longest standing democracy. Bad news: he's a Russian. That government poisons you just for speaking in public. Most people there wouldn't dare speak their views outside of their kitchen table. Irony for your "freedom fighter" will be given they despise traitors so when he pushes the wrong button, they murder him.
- user3939382 4y ago
  > watch for any injustice with a more astute mind What you seem to be missing is the fact that Snowden shouldn't be being prosecuted at all. He should be protected by the Whistleblower Protection Act. He shouldn't be "hiding" or "running" or whatever you'd like to call it because there shouldn't be anything to run or hide from. The second the evidence he presented was looked into the DOJ should have immediately dropped any charges against him, he should have been pardoned to protect him from any future prosecution, and he should have been awarded the medal of honor. You're starting from this flawed premise that he needs to "face the music for his crimes" which is just completely fallacious. I couldn't care less what country he's in, again not the point. The point is the US doubled down on its crimes by not only committing them but illegally trying to prosecute someone who exposed them. For whatever reason or axe you have to grind you refuse to recognize any of that.