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Yes, I came across that. Didn't really compare to rate limiting in nginx, in terms of maturity or support. > WORK IN PROGRESS: Please note that this module is

Yes, I came across that. Didn't really compare to rate limiting in nginx, in terms of maturity or support. > WORK IN PROGRESS: Please note that this module is still unfinished and may have bugs. Please try it out and file bug reports - thanks!

francislavoie 4y ago
Sure, but it'll never reach maturity if you don't try it! We're always looking for more people to test things out, give their thoughts, and contribute ideas or fixes.
- heurisko 4y ago
  I think Caddy should adopt the module as a core module.
  - francislavoie 4y ago
    We may eventually do that, but we need evidence that it's actually useful for people, since it adds to the long-term maintenance burden if we bundle it.
    - POPOSYS 4y ago
      Rate limiting is a life saving jacket, not some fancy nice-to-have feature.
      - francislavoie 4y ago
        Understood, but we don't want to ship something half-baked in the standard distribution. So we offer it as a plugin first so it can be worked on and polished without being tied to Caddy's versioning. Please try it out and give specific feedback on the plugin. We need to hear if there's any functionality missing or if the design doesn't fit user's needs before we can bundle it.
    - heurisko 4y ago
      I look through my server logs sometimes and often see connection and request throttling being activated, by those who are hitting the servers with their automated exploit tools. I see having some sort of throttling as essential as being able to set the max client body file size to prevent abuse. Of course, I could run something else in front of the server, but it's simpler for my use cases not to. The auto-SSL and simplified configuration were very attractive things about Caddy, however. If your CMS provides it, maybe you could run an exit poll for people who demo Caddy, then look elsewhere, as I'm just speaking from my own experience.
      - francislavoie 4y ago
        Understood, I'm not saying it's not generally useful, I'm specifically talking about this implementation; is the way it was built useful, does it actually solve user's rate limiting needs? We need people to try to the plugin so we can mould it to user's needs. Then later we can bundle it once we're sure it's designed properly and we're locked-in on the approach taken.
        heurisko 4y ago
        Indeed, I see where you are coming from. However I wonder if it would work better if the module were brought under the Caddy namespace and marked "beta". At least then, there would be a show of commitment for the idea, if not the implementation. Recently I've been looking at the Symfony framework, and this is how they introduce features, with a clear warning that the API etc. is subject to change.
- POPOSYS 4y ago
  I think that is the problematic point with Caddy right now - if you are using it, you are actually a beta tester. This is a problem for sites with lots of traffic because things start to be different with servers maxed out - Nginx is battle hardened, learned it´s lessons and you can be sure that it works under extreme load as expected. Also you definitely need rate limiting out of the box, not as some beta plugin that needs to be fiddled in manually. Also streaming is something that needs really good testing with high loads. K8s is important for many people, too. Of course it is not easy to find someone willing to test on a high traffic site when there are well established alternatives since many years and no actual problem needs to be solved. "Easy configuration" is not very important for admins of high traffic sites. Not easy to find what could be the selling point for Caddy, but it should deliver one or two special things more.

francislavoie 4y ago

Sure, but it'll never reach maturity if you don't try it! We're always looking for more people to test things out, give their thoughts, and contribute ideas or fixes.

heurisko 4y ago
I think Caddy should adopt the module as a core module.
- francislavoie 4y ago
  We may eventually do that, but we need evidence that it's actually useful for people, since it adds to the long-term maintenance burden if we bundle it.
  - POPOSYS 4y ago
    Rate limiting is a life saving jacket, not some fancy nice-to-have feature.
    - francislavoie 4y ago
      Understood, but we don't want to ship something half-baked in the standard distribution. So we offer it as a plugin first so it can be worked on and polished without being tied to Caddy's versioning. Please try it out and give specific feedback on the plugin. We need to hear if there's any functionality missing or if the design doesn't fit user's needs before we can bundle it.
  - heurisko 4y ago
    I look through my server logs sometimes and often see connection and request throttling being activated, by those who are hitting the servers with their automated exploit tools. I see having some sort of throttling as essential as being able to set the max client body file size to prevent abuse. Of course, I could run something else in front of the server, but it's simpler for my use cases not to. The auto-SSL and simplified configuration were very attractive things about Caddy, however. If your CMS provides it, maybe you could run an exit poll for people who demo Caddy, then look elsewhere, as I'm just speaking from my own experience.
    - francislavoie 4y ago
      Understood, I'm not saying it's not generally useful, I'm specifically talking about this implementation; is the way it was built useful, does it actually solve user's rate limiting needs? We need people to try to the plugin so we can mould it to user's needs. Then later we can bundle it once we're sure it's designed properly and we're locked-in on the approach taken.
      - heurisko 4y ago
        Indeed, I see where you are coming from. However I wonder if it would work better if the module were brought under the Caddy namespace and marked "beta". At least then, there would be a show of commitment for the idea, if not the implementation. Recently I've been looking at the Symfony framework, and this is how they introduce features, with a clear warning that the API etc. is subject to change.
POPOSYS 4y ago
I think that is the problematic point with Caddy right now - if you are using it, you are actually a beta tester. This is a problem for sites with lots of traffic because things start to be different with servers maxed out - Nginx is battle hardened, learned it´s lessons and you can be sure that it works under extreme load as expected. Also you definitely need rate limiting out of the box, not as some beta plugin that needs to be fiddled in manually. Also streaming is something that needs really good testing with high loads. K8s is important for many people, too. Of course it is not easy to find someone willing to test on a high traffic site when there are well established alternatives since many years and no actual problem needs to be solved. "Easy configuration" is not very important for admins of high traffic sites. Not easy to find what could be the selling point for Caddy, but it should deliver one or two special things more.