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Disclaimer: I am no expert, have never been to Japan, and know no Japanese people. That said, I've read or watched several pieces [1] which state the complex

Disclaimer: I am no expert, have never been to Japan, and know no Japanese people. That said, I've read or watched several pieces [1] which state the complex relationship Japan has with religion. It is said that modern Japanese see Shinto as one of the factors that drove into the Asia Pacific War and World War II. Aum Shinrikio [2], a sect that did terrorist attacks also contributed to giving religions a bad name. Christianity is practiced only by a very small minority and modern Shinto has been reduced to consist almost exclusively of ritual, with little belief for gods, souls, or the afterlife. I'd be interested in hearing more perspectives on this from anyone with first hand experience, or that just knows better. [1]. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJmWVWCdTYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJmWVWCdTYo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0hxKznLTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr0hxKznLTA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZHuFtuzdg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7gZHuFtuzdg [2]. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aum_Shinrikyo

andi999 4y ago
Dont forget buddhism, which is basically for funerals only. Most japanese (>90%) get a buddhist funeral (supposedly expensive).
- baud147258 4y ago
  isn't there a saying that goes something like 'Japanese are born Shintoist, marry as Christian and are buried Buddhist' ? Like as if religion was a more mutable part of one's identity, compared to other countries.
  - cdavid 4y ago
    Most people who get married the "western style", do it w/ fake priest, etc. It has no recognized religious value. Other people do it the "shinto way" or the "buddhist way".
  - naniwaduni 4y ago
    This, too, is an artifact of viewing about religion through the lens of a tradition which is unusually (a) more concerned about having the right beliefs ("orthodoxy") than performing the right rituals ("orthopraxy"), and (b) centered around a jealous god to the exclusion of other religious practice. Without (b), there's no need for such a strong delineation between religion and general cultural practice. You perform "Shinto" rituals because that's what everyone around you has done and you're pretty sure it's worked out fine for them. You have a "Christian" wedding because that seems like the most legibly festive (and accordingly popular) marriage ritual available to you, out of a handful of distinct but all perfectly functional marriage rituals that you're pretty sure have worked fine for people around you. You conduct "Buddhist" funerals because those are the most practical funeral rituals for your setting and you're pretty sure they've worked out fine for people around you. You don't need to think very hard about the fact that these rituals come from different traditions and follow different and contradictory "theory" behind the scenes; it's just a curiosity if it comes up, but mostly it doesn't. As long as the rituals seem to work and life goes on, it doesn't really matter.
- cdavid 4y ago
  wedding as well. I don't have numbers, but most people who got married in Japan I know, including myself, did it.
- grapeskin 4y ago
  People visit Buddhist temples as social get togethers. It’s common for friends to meet up, walk through a temple, and pray. There are also very devout branches and even political parties with strong Buddhist connections. This comment chain seems to increasingly be full of people who haven’t been to Japan talking about it, and it shows.
  - andi999 4y ago
    Because the temples have a street food and shops in front of it?
brazzy 4y ago
> Shinto has been reduced to consist almost exclusively of ritual, I really don't think this is true, or rather: it is a view shaped by biased expectations of how a "real" religion should look like, namely like the Abrahamic ones. Shinto always was a religion of rituals that aim to gain some measure of control over a chaotic world. >with little belief for gods, That is definitely untrue - Shinto is all about gods. Just not omnipotent big-G Gods. Shinto Kami are approachable spirits of nature and places, who might grant you a boon if you do the right things and it is in their realm of responsibility. >souls, or the afterlife. Yes, Shinto does not have a concept of "soul" and doesn't concern itself much with an afterlife (that's why Japanese people get Buddhist funerals) - but why would it absolutely have to?
- jankcorn 4y ago
  > religion of rituals that aim to gain some measure of control over a chaotic world Yes, my experience is that most Japanese are into "actions/practice" more than philosophical "big ideas". Ise Jingu is my favorite place anywhere; it is a place to stop thinking, become humble before nature and appreciate things as they are.
- galaxyLogic 4y ago
  > Shinto Kami are approachable spirits of nature Sounds a bit like Carlos Castaneda and shamanism in general, no?
  - brazzy 4y ago
    I think it's better classified as animism, though there is certainly some overlap. But while Shinto priests' roles in the religion can be compared to that of shamans, Shinto doesn't actually place that much emphasis on them - individual and group practice also play a big role.
    - galaxyLogic 4y ago
      Interesting. It sounds like in shamanism the spirits are more "real". In Shinto it seems like a commonly agreed-upon belief that they exist. Shinto relishes the belief whereas Shamanism relishes the experience.
dwg 4y ago
I'm no expert, but I live and work in Japan. As far as I have seen "Shinto as a religion" plays a relatively small role in Japanese society. I am American and Japanese shinto looks almost nothing at all like American Christianity. Many if not most Japanese people visit shrines (especially on set dates throughout the year), at which time they give a small donation and prayer, but from my perspective this is indeed mostly ritual. Routine you might say. You could also say Japanese culture has high inertia. People tend to do things because (a) that's what other people do or (b) that's what's always been done. Of course things do change, but without a strong impetus they tend strongly to coast along the same road. Shinto from a broader perspective, or simply Japanese culture as I am tempted to call it as it's difficult to draw a line, has many other influences other than simply visiting shrines. Festivals, rituals, and so on. But here also I don't see what I would call a "religion" based on a "strong belief" in "higher power(s)." An example is when a new house or building is to be built, Shinto "priests" are called to perform a ceremony at the building site. Another is the little salt dishes they put around houses and buildings to keep "demons/bad luck" out. Seems to me it's closer to superstition! Occasionally I come across something like this PDF and it confuses me. It portrays Shinto as very mystic, but that doesn't match well with the reality on the ground of everyday life in Japan, at least through my lens. Note: my experience is in the last decade and a half. I haven't asked or heard much about the past. It's not a stretch to imagine that "shinto" used to look more like a "belief based religion" some decades or centuries ago.
kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
Aum Shinrikyo is like the Branch Davidians or Heaven's Gate. They are a marginal cult that isn't indicative of the broader culture.
- resonious 4y ago
  I agree with this but I don't think it refutes anything that GP was trying to say. I've spent a few years in Japan and religion really does have a bad rap here. My experience is that if you talk about large religious organizations, people will assume "cult" until proven otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if Aum Shinrikyo and other extreme (but not representative) groups is one of the driving factors behind that common skepticism.

andi999 4y ago

Dont forget buddhism, which is basically for funerals only. Most japanese (>90%) get a buddhist funeral (supposedly expensive).

baud147258 4y ago
isn't there a saying that goes something like 'Japanese are born Shintoist, marry as Christian and are buried Buddhist' ? Like as if religion was a more mutable part of one's identity, compared to other countries.
- cdavid 4y ago
  Most people who get married the "western style", do it w/ fake priest, etc. It has no recognized religious value. Other people do it the "shinto way" or the "buddhist way".
- naniwaduni 4y ago
  This, too, is an artifact of viewing about religion through the lens of a tradition which is unusually (a) more concerned about having the right beliefs ("orthodoxy") than performing the right rituals ("orthopraxy"), and (b) centered around a jealous god to the exclusion of other religious practice. Without (b), there's no need for such a strong delineation between religion and general cultural practice. You perform "Shinto" rituals because that's what everyone around you has done and you're pretty sure it's worked out fine for them. You have a "Christian" wedding because that seems like the most legibly festive (and accordingly popular) marriage ritual available to you, out of a handful of distinct but all perfectly functional marriage rituals that you're pretty sure have worked fine for people around you. You conduct "Buddhist" funerals because those are the most practical funeral rituals for your setting and you're pretty sure they've worked out fine for people around you. You don't need to think very hard about the fact that these rituals come from different traditions and follow different and contradictory "theory" behind the scenes; it's just a curiosity if it comes up, but mostly it doesn't. As long as the rituals seem to work and life goes on, it doesn't really matter.
cdavid 4y ago
wedding as well. I don't have numbers, but most people who got married in Japan I know, including myself, did it.
grapeskin 4y ago
People visit Buddhist temples as social get togethers. It’s common for friends to meet up, walk through a temple, and pray. There are also very devout branches and even political parties with strong Buddhist connections. This comment chain seems to increasingly be full of people who haven’t been to Japan talking about it, and it shows.
- andi999 4y ago
  Because the temples have a street food and shops in front of it?

brazzy 4y ago

> Shinto has been reduced to consist almost exclusively of ritual, I really don't think this is true, or rather: it is a view shaped by biased expectations of how a "real" religion should look like, namely like the Abrahamic ones. Shinto always was a religion of rituals that aim to gain some measure of control over a chaotic world. >with little belief for gods, That is definitely untrue - Shinto is all about gods. Just not omnipotent big-G Gods. Shinto Kami are approachable spirits of nature and places, who might grant you a boon if you do the right things and it is in their realm of responsibility. >souls, or the afterlife. Yes, Shinto does not have a concept of "soul" and doesn't concern itself much with an afterlife (that's why Japanese people get Buddhist funerals) - but why would it absolutely have to?

jankcorn 4y ago
> religion of rituals that aim to gain some measure of control over a chaotic world Yes, my experience is that most Japanese are into "actions/practice" more than philosophical "big ideas". Ise Jingu is my favorite place anywhere; it is a place to stop thinking, become humble before nature and appreciate things as they are.
galaxyLogic 4y ago
> Shinto Kami are approachable spirits of nature Sounds a bit like Carlos Castaneda and shamanism in general, no?
- brazzy 4y ago
  I think it's better classified as animism, though there is certainly some overlap. But while Shinto priests' roles in the religion can be compared to that of shamans, Shinto doesn't actually place that much emphasis on them - individual and group practice also play a big role.
  - galaxyLogic 4y ago
    Interesting. It sounds like in shamanism the spirits are more "real". In Shinto it seems like a commonly agreed-upon belief that they exist. Shinto relishes the belief whereas Shamanism relishes the experience.

dwg 4y ago

I'm no expert, but I live and work in Japan. As far as I have seen "Shinto as a religion" plays a relatively small role in Japanese society. I am American and Japanese shinto looks almost nothing at all like American Christianity. Many if not most Japanese people visit shrines (especially on set dates throughout the year), at which time they give a small donation and prayer, but from my perspective this is indeed mostly ritual. Routine you might say. You could also say Japanese culture has high inertia. People tend to do things because (a) that's what other people do or (b) that's what's always been done. Of course things do change, but without a strong impetus they tend strongly to coast along the same road. Shinto from a broader perspective, or simply Japanese culture as I am tempted to call it as it's difficult to draw a line, has many other influences other than simply visiting shrines. Festivals, rituals, and so on. But here also I don't see what I would call a "religion" based on a "strong belief" in "higher power(s)." An example is when a new house or building is to be built, Shinto "priests" are called to perform a ceremony at the building site. Another is the little salt dishes they put around houses and buildings to keep "demons/bad luck" out. Seems to me it's closer to superstition! Occasionally I come across something like this PDF and it confuses me. It portrays Shinto as very mystic, but that doesn't match well with the reality on the ground of everyday life in Japan, at least through my lens. Note: my experience is in the last decade and a half. I haven't asked or heard much about the past. It's not a stretch to imagine that "shinto" used to look more like a "belief based religion" some decades or centuries ago.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago

Aum Shinrikyo is like the Branch Davidians or Heaven's Gate. They are a marginal cult that isn't indicative of the broader culture.

resonious 4y ago
I agree with this but I don't think it refutes anything that GP was trying to say. I've spent a few years in Japan and religion really does have a bad rap here. My experience is that if you talk about large religious organizations, people will assume "cult" until proven otherwise. I wouldn't be surprised if Aum Shinrikyo and other extreme (but not representative) groups is one of the driving factors behind that common skepticism.