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How do you get IT workers there being highly skilled when most of the population isn't on the internet. Also, considering the treatment of throwing lots of them

by monksy 4y ago

How do you get IT workers there being highly skilled when most of the population isn't on the internet. Also, considering the treatment of throwing lots of them in forced labor camps over percieved slights and poverty.. I just don't understand where are these people coming from? It's not like NK has universities and a lively educated class.

timecube 4y ago
North Korea literally does have universities and an educated class.
deleted 4y ago
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deleted 4y ago
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_jal 4y ago
I suspect you have an unrealistic view of the country. Even very poor countries with hereditary dictators are very large places.
- monksy 4y ago
  Poor countries with hereditary dictators aren't nearly as secretive, closed off, or have such sanctions as NK.
toss1 4y ago
You are missing the fact that not all societies are open Closed authoritarian societies, even those under sanction, have a ruling and privileged classes that DO have all the amenities — basically by extracting all the wealth to the small ruling classes. Even if it is only a microscopic percentage of the society that is at the top, it can still amount to substantial numbers.
- DoctorNick 4y ago
  - toss1 4y ago
    Indeed the USA does have some aspects of this - certainly it is too lax in preventing a set of extractive and exploitative industries/industrialists from hoarding most of the resources and income and taxing it too little But the USA, while an unhelathy democracy, is NOT yet an authoritarian state. It is, however, within one minor and one major election from becoming one. If you think the above description actually fully describes the USA, you REALLY haven't seen anything yet. If small-d democracy fails in the next two elections, these will truly look like the good old days, and you'll be telling your grandchildren how good it was in the early 2020s, as the USA (and probably most western democracies with it) descend to the authoritarian depths of Russia, Venezuela, China, NK, etc. While it is far from perfect, it is critical to understand the differences, and get out and vote while you still can to prevent the much worse failure from becoming reality.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      Thank you for stating this. As much as I worry about US ( and my adopted home ), it is a ridiculous exaggeration to call it outright authoritarian ( or closed for that matter ). It does not mean that there are no attempts at making it so, but I think we are still somewhat far from it for now. Sometimes I wonder if the exaggeration is just the way we communicate today ( everything is a crisis / sky is falling / we are all gonna die / find out which commonly used household item is deadly ) as that is what the population was taught about the world by interacting with ads online.
      - toss1 4y ago
        Yes, while there is a heavy dose of hyperbole in the media and internet spheres, I think the effect is actually to obscure the level of the present danger. Kind of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" problem — e.g., while people yelled "Nazi!" at GW Bush and D Cheney, many of the new crop in that party have already literally tried to steal an election and will implement authoritarian policies if they get power - so much so that even Cheney's daughter is an outcast for merely trying to adhere to democratic principles. The difference is whether the voters choose their leaders or the leaders choose their voters. So, while we are most definitely not there yet, democracy is literally teetering on the brink, and if too many people fail to vote, everyone will get to see up close what a real autocracy looks like. Seriously, the only thing on the ballot this year is democracy, and people must show up and vote for small-d democratic candidates down to dogcatcher. Get you and every friend you know to show up.
woodruffw 4y ago
It's still a pretty large country: around 26 million people. And it's not exactly a destitute state: it's a kleptocratic state with an educated (often abroad) elite class. It's hard to get an exact estimate of their current HDI, but the UN placed it at 0.766 back in the 1990s[1]. That puts them in around the same tier as Yugoslavia today. [1]: https://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/reports/259/hdr_1998_en_complete_nostats.pdf#33 https://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/reports/259/hdr_199...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
fomine3 4y ago
I wonder why some NK people really great about hacking/computer science/rocket science despite the country is poor. Looks like successful of education.
somenameforme 4y ago
The fact they're capable of successfully building, deploying, and advancing nuclear technology should tell you that your stereotypes are missing some things. The Wiki page [1] is very outdated, but has plentiful information to at least start challenging your stereotypes. For instance almost 40 years ago now, North Korea had reportedly 23,000 college/university teachers alongside 4000 other postsecondary teachers teaching upwards of 300,000 university level students at the time, with an educational system largely focused on STEM. And it's reasonable to expect those numbers have increased since. Education through secondary is mandatory, and there is then a competitive process for admittance to higher education. Adult education is also an ongoing process with workers continuing to participate in educational groups daily and also having, and having the opportunity to participate in the equivalent of educational 'boot camps' to learn advanced trades. I feel in modern society that we are increasingly failing to learn from the past (and present) due to presenting things such that evil is evil through and through, and good - well it at least has some flaws, but tends to be more or less good through and through. Reality isn't quite so kind. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_North_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_North_Korea

by monksy 4y ago

timecube 4y ago

North Korea literally does have universities and an educated class.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

_jal 4y ago

I suspect you have an unrealistic view of the country. Even very poor countries with hereditary dictators are very large places.

monksy 4y ago
Poor countries with hereditary dictators aren't nearly as secretive, closed off, or have such sanctions as NK.

toss1 4y ago

You are missing the fact that not all societies are open Closed authoritarian societies, even those under sanction, have a ruling and privileged classes that DO have all the amenities — basically by extracting all the wealth to the small ruling classes. Even if it is only a microscopic percentage of the society that is at the top, it can still amount to substantial numbers.

DoctorNick 4y ago
- toss1 4y ago
  Indeed the USA does have some aspects of this - certainly it is too lax in preventing a set of extractive and exploitative industries/industrialists from hoarding most of the resources and income and taxing it too little But the USA, while an unhelathy democracy, is NOT yet an authoritarian state. It is, however, within one minor and one major election from becoming one. If you think the above description actually fully describes the USA, you REALLY haven't seen anything yet. If small-d democracy fails in the next two elections, these will truly look like the good old days, and you'll be telling your grandchildren how good it was in the early 2020s, as the USA (and probably most western democracies with it) descend to the authoritarian depths of Russia, Venezuela, China, NK, etc. While it is far from perfect, it is critical to understand the differences, and get out and vote while you still can to prevent the much worse failure from becoming reality.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    Thank you for stating this. As much as I worry about US ( and my adopted home ), it is a ridiculous exaggeration to call it outright authoritarian ( or closed for that matter ). It does not mean that there are no attempts at making it so, but I think we are still somewhat far from it for now. Sometimes I wonder if the exaggeration is just the way we communicate today ( everything is a crisis / sky is falling / we are all gonna die / find out which commonly used household item is deadly ) as that is what the population was taught about the world by interacting with ads online.
    - toss1 4y ago
      Yes, while there is a heavy dose of hyperbole in the media and internet spheres, I think the effect is actually to obscure the level of the present danger. Kind of the "Boy Who Cried Wolf" problem — e.g., while people yelled "Nazi!" at GW Bush and D Cheney, many of the new crop in that party have already literally tried to steal an election and will implement authoritarian policies if they get power - so much so that even Cheney's daughter is an outcast for merely trying to adhere to democratic principles. The difference is whether the voters choose their leaders or the leaders choose their voters. So, while we are most definitely not there yet, democracy is literally teetering on the brink, and if too many people fail to vote, everyone will get to see up close what a real autocracy looks like. Seriously, the only thing on the ballot this year is democracy, and people must show up and vote for small-d democratic candidates down to dogcatcher. Get you and every friend you know to show up.

woodruffw 4y ago

It's still a pretty large country: around 26 million people. And it's not exactly a destitute state: it's a kleptocratic state with an educated (often abroad) elite class. It's hard to get an exact estimate of their current HDI, but the UN placed it at 0.766 back in the 1990s[1]. That puts them in around the same tier as Yugoslavia today. [1]: https://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/reports/259/hdr_1998_en_complete_nostats.pdf#33 https://hdr.undp.org/sites/default/files/reports/259/hdr_199...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

fomine3 4y ago

I wonder why some NK people really great about hacking/computer science/rocket science despite the country is poor. Looks like successful of education.

somenameforme 4y ago

The fact they're capable of successfully building, deploying, and advancing nuclear technology should tell you that your stereotypes are missing some things. The Wiki page [1] is very outdated, but has plentiful information to at least start challenging your stereotypes. For instance almost 40 years ago now, North Korea had reportedly 23,000 college/university teachers alongside 4000 other postsecondary teachers teaching upwards of 300,000 university level students at the time, with an educational system largely focused on STEM. And it's reasonable to expect those numbers have increased since. Education through secondary is mandatory, and there is then a competitive process for admittance to higher education. Adult education is also an ongoing process with workers continuing to participate in educational groups daily and also having, and having the opportunity to participate in the equivalent of educational 'boot camps' to learn advanced trades. I feel in modern society that we are increasingly failing to learn from the past (and present) due to presenting things such that evil is evil through and through, and good - well it at least has some flaws, but tends to be more or less good through and through. Reality isn't quite so kind. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_North_Korea https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_North_Korea