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The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where on

The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where one person was supposed to pick up the gun in the (likely) case the other person got shot. To prevent people from refusing orders, they simply shot anyone running the wrong way. Ordering people to march towards (almost) certain death is probably as old as war is. What set the Japanese apart is the fanatical culture that resulted in people volunteering for this. The modern equivalent would be suicide bombers.

the_af 4y ago
Your understanding of the Red Army is incorrect. Please cite academic sources (so not Enemy at the Gates, awful movie) showing that at Stalingrad the Red Army had "more soldiers than guns".
- golergka 4y ago
  Never saw that movie, but it's pretty much common knowledge in modern Russia, and was described in very numerous accounts by war veterans.
  - the_af 4y ago
    It's still wrong. The Red Army didn't have a guns shortage at Stalingrad. "Common knowledge" is not knowledge, not in "modern Russia" either. Cite one academic source, please.
corrral 4y ago
> The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where one person was supposed to pick up the gun in the (likely) case the other person got shot. To prevent people from refusing orders, they simply shot anyone running the wrong way. Ordering people to march towards (almost) certain death is probably as old as war is. This was depicted in the film Enemy at the Gates (2001)—and probably other, earlier films, I'd expect—and then strikingly similarly (i.e. they likely deliberately modeled their version on the scene from the film) in the first Call of Duty game (2003), back when that series was all WWII shooters.
- the_af 4y ago
  It should be noted this was false at Stalingrad, and "Enemy at the Gates" has a terribly inaccurate depiction of that battle. There are no reliable sources stating that the Red Army [1] had more soldiers than guns by that time. Just some pop culture from a terrible movie that has somehow permeated into "knowledge" about the Eastern Front. [1] also wrong to call it "the Russian army", it was the army of the Soviet Union and had non-Russians.
  - corrral 4y ago
    Interesting. More evidence that CoD copied the film, then, I suppose.
  - trzy 4y ago
    I've heard that they did order soldiers to advance through mine fields (effectively de-mining a path through them using abundant human bodies) or face the NKVD. The calculation was simple: you might survive the minefield but you had a 100% chance of being executed for refusing the order.
    - the_af 4y ago
      You "heard" where? And during which part of the battle of Stalingrad was this?
      - sleiben 4y ago
        It’s from Eisenhower’s book `Crusade in Europe` where he tells a story from general Georgy Zhukov how Soviet soldiers were cleaning the minefields. Though it’s not related to Stalingrad afair.
        the_af 4y ago
        I tracked down Eisenhower's conversation with Zhukov, and note how -- in context -- sounds a lot more reasonable, with not one single mention of NKVD shooting their own troops: > "“Highly illuminating to me was his description of the Russian method of attacking through mine fields. The German mine fields, covered by defensive fire, were tactical obstacles that caused us [the western Allies] many casualties and delays. It was always a laborious business to break through them, even though our technicians invented every conceivable mechanical appliance to destroy mines safely. Marshal Zhukov gave me a matter-of-fact statement of his practice, which was, roughly, ‘There are two kinds of mines; one is the personnel mine and the other is the vehicular mine. When we come to a mine field our infantry attacks exactly as if it were not there. The losses we get from personnel mines we consider only equal to those we would have gotten from machine guns and artillery if the Germans had chosen to defend that particular area with strong bodies of troops instead of with mine fields. The attacking infantry does not set off the vehicular mines, so after they have penetrated to the far side of the field they form a bridgehead, after which the engineers come up and dig out the channels through which our vehicles can go.’”"

the_af 4y ago

Your understanding of the Red Army is incorrect. Please cite academic sources (so not Enemy at the Gates, awful movie) showing that at Stalingrad the Red Army had "more soldiers than guns".

golergka 4y ago
Never saw that movie, but it's pretty much common knowledge in modern Russia, and was described in very numerous accounts by war veterans.
- the_af 4y ago
  It's still wrong. The Red Army didn't have a guns shortage at Stalingrad. "Common knowledge" is not knowledge, not in "modern Russia" either. Cite one academic source, please.

corrral 4y ago

> The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where one person was supposed to pick up the gun in the (likely) case the other person got shot. To prevent people from refusing orders, they simply shot anyone running the wrong way. Ordering people to march towards (almost) certain death is probably as old as war is. This was depicted in the film Enemy at the Gates (2001)—and probably other, earlier films, I'd expect—and then strikingly similarly (i.e. they likely deliberately modeled their version on the scene from the film) in the first Call of Duty game (2003), back when that series was all WWII shooters.

the_af 4y ago
It should be noted this was false at Stalingrad, and "Enemy at the Gates" has a terribly inaccurate depiction of that battle. There are no reliable sources stating that the Red Army [1] had more soldiers than guns by that time. Just some pop culture from a terrible movie that has somehow permeated into "knowledge" about the Eastern Front. [1] also wrong to call it "the Russian army", it was the army of the Soviet Union and had non-Russians.
- corrral 4y ago
  Interesting. More evidence that CoD copied the film, then, I suppose.
- trzy 4y ago
  I've heard that they did order soldiers to advance through mine fields (effectively de-mining a path through them using abundant human bodies) or face the NKVD. The calculation was simple: you might survive the minefield but you had a 100% chance of being executed for refusing the order.
  - the_af 4y ago
    You "heard" where? And during which part of the battle of Stalingrad was this?
    - sleiben 4y ago
      It’s from Eisenhower’s book `Crusade in Europe` where he tells a story from general Georgy Zhukov how Soviet soldiers were cleaning the minefields. Though it’s not related to Stalingrad afair.
      - the_af 4y ago
        I tracked down Eisenhower's conversation with Zhukov, and note how -- in context -- sounds a lot more reasonable, with not one single mention of NKVD shooting their own troops: > "“Highly illuminating to me was his description of the Russian method of attacking through mine fields. The German mine fields, covered by defensive fire, were tactical obstacles that caused us [the western Allies] many casualties and delays. It was always a laborious business to break through them, even though our technicians invented every conceivable mechanical appliance to destroy mines safely. Marshal Zhukov gave me a matter-of-fact statement of his practice, which was, roughly, ‘There are two kinds of mines; one is the personnel mine and the other is the vehicular mine. When we come to a mine field our infantry attacks exactly as if it were not there. The losses we get from personnel mines we consider only equal to those we would have gotten from machine guns and artillery if the Germans had chosen to defend that particular area with strong bodies of troops instead of with mine fields. The attacking infantry does not set off the vehicular mines, so after they have penetrated to the far side of the field they form a bridgehead, after which the engineers come up and dig out the channels through which our vehicles can go.’”"