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The Nazis planned to use similar suicide tactics with a manned version of their V-1 cruise missile. They built and flew prototypes, but Hitler was persuaded to

The Nazis planned to use similar suicide tactics with a manned version of their V-1 cruise missile. They built and flew prototypes, but Hitler was persuaded to drop the project before it was put to use. Formalized suicide attack programs with purpose-built hardware are chilling to think about, but there is also a broader class of suicide attacks that include impromptu decisions and last resorts which seem easier to understand. On both sides of WW2, there are cases of pilots trying to crash into the enemy after realizing their fate was sealed anyway. This may have happened with an American B-26 at the Battle of Midway, and one of the Japanese pilots who attacked Pearl Harbor apparently announced his intention to do this before the battle (in both cases they missed their target.)

trhway 4y ago
>a broader class of suicide attacks that include impromptu decisions and last resorts which seem easier to understand. In USSR/Russia such attacks by Soviet soldiers (using say your body to close the machine gun embrasure) have been widely celebrated. Where is similar behavior by Ukrainian soldiers against Russian forces in today's war is blamed by Russian propaganda on "Ukrainian nationalists being pumped full of drugs".
jillesvangurp 4y ago
The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where one person was supposed to pick up the gun in the (likely) case the other person got shot. To prevent people from refusing orders, they simply shot anyone running the wrong way. Ordering people to march towards (almost) certain death is probably as old as war is. What set the Japanese apart is the fanatical culture that resulted in people volunteering for this. The modern equivalent would be suicide bombers.
- the_af 4y ago
  Your understanding of the Red Army is incorrect. Please cite academic sources (so not Enemy at the Gates, awful movie) showing that at Stalingrad the Red Army had "more soldiers than guns".
  - golergka 4y ago
    Never saw that movie, but it's pretty much common knowledge in modern Russia, and was described in very numerous accounts by war veterans.
    - the_af 4y ago
      It's still wrong. The Red Army didn't have a guns shortage at Stalingrad. "Common knowledge" is not knowledge, not in "modern Russia" either. Cite one academic source, please.
- corrral 4y ago
  > The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where one person was supposed to pick up the gun in the (likely) case the other person got shot. To prevent people from refusing orders, they simply shot anyone running the wrong way. Ordering people to march towards (almost) certain death is probably as old as war is. This was depicted in the film Enemy at the Gates (2001)—and probably other, earlier films, I'd expect—and then strikingly similarly (i.e. they likely deliberately modeled their version on the scene from the film) in the first Call of Duty game (2003), back when that series was all WWII shooters.
  - the_af 4y ago
    It should be noted this was false at Stalingrad, and "Enemy at the Gates" has a terribly inaccurate depiction of that battle. There are no reliable sources stating that the Red Army [1] had more soldiers than guns by that time. Just some pop culture from a terrible movie that has somehow permeated into "knowledge" about the Eastern Front. [1] also wrong to call it "the Russian army", it was the army of the Soviet Union and had non-Russians.
    - corrral 4y ago
      Interesting. More evidence that CoD copied the film, then, I suppose.
    - trzy 4y ago
      I've heard that they did order soldiers to advance through mine fields (effectively de-mining a path through them using abundant human bodies) or face the NKVD. The calculation was simple: you might survive the minefield but you had a 100% chance of being executed for refusing the order.
      - the_af 4y ago
        You "heard" where? And during which part of the battle of Stalingrad was this?

trhway 4y ago

>a broader class of suicide attacks that include impromptu decisions and last resorts which seem easier to understand. In USSR/Russia such attacks by Soviet soldiers (using say your body to close the machine gun embrasure) have been widely celebrated. Where is similar behavior by Ukrainian soldiers against Russian forces in today's war is blamed by Russian propaganda on "Ukrainian nationalists being pumped full of drugs".

jillesvangurp 4y ago

The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where one person was supposed to pick up the gun in the (likely) case the other person got shot. To prevent people from refusing orders, they simply shot anyone running the wrong way. Ordering people to march towards (almost) certain death is probably as old as war is. What set the Japanese apart is the fanatical culture that resulted in people volunteering for this. The modern equivalent would be suicide bombers.

the_af 4y ago
Your understanding of the Red Army is incorrect. Please cite academic sources (so not Enemy at the Gates, awful movie) showing that at Stalingrad the Red Army had "more soldiers than guns".
- golergka 4y ago
  Never saw that movie, but it's pretty much common knowledge in modern Russia, and was described in very numerous accounts by war veterans.
  - the_af 4y ago
    It's still wrong. The Red Army didn't have a guns shortage at Stalingrad. "Common knowledge" is not knowledge, not in "modern Russia" either. Cite one academic source, please.
corrral 4y ago
> The Russian army also had some chilling tactics. Basically they had more soldiers than guns during the battle of Stalingrad. So they sent them in pairs where one person was supposed to pick up the gun in the (likely) case the other person got shot. To prevent people from refusing orders, they simply shot anyone running the wrong way. Ordering people to march towards (almost) certain death is probably as old as war is. This was depicted in the film Enemy at the Gates (2001)—and probably other, earlier films, I'd expect—and then strikingly similarly (i.e. they likely deliberately modeled their version on the scene from the film) in the first Call of Duty game (2003), back when that series was all WWII shooters.
- the_af 4y ago
  It should be noted this was false at Stalingrad, and "Enemy at the Gates" has a terribly inaccurate depiction of that battle. There are no reliable sources stating that the Red Army [1] had more soldiers than guns by that time. Just some pop culture from a terrible movie that has somehow permeated into "knowledge" about the Eastern Front. [1] also wrong to call it "the Russian army", it was the army of the Soviet Union and had non-Russians.
  - corrral 4y ago
    Interesting. More evidence that CoD copied the film, then, I suppose.
  - trzy 4y ago
    I've heard that they did order soldiers to advance through mine fields (effectively de-mining a path through them using abundant human bodies) or face the NKVD. The calculation was simple: you might survive the minefield but you had a 100% chance of being executed for refusing the order.
    - the_af 4y ago
      You "heard" where? And during which part of the battle of Stalingrad was this?