5 ms·

There is a bridge in Flint where the support pillars are held together by giant steel clamps because the concrete is crumbling underneath them. As you go north

by paulmd 4y ago

There is a bridge in Flint where the support pillars are held together by giant steel clamps because the concrete is crumbling underneath them. As you go northbound on I-75 and it makes that 90-degree left turn next to some kind of auto plant, there is a 3-level interchange and the support pillars have giant clamps on them. Every time I drive under it, it's a bit of a laugh, but who knows how safe it really actually is. I don't think that's an exception either. The state of infrastructure in this country is indeed terrible and people have been sounding the alarm since forever, and it just never gets fixed. But there is always money for new tanks that get sent straight to the boneyard, or fighting whatever extremely-important war we're into this year.

mfer 4y ago
The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) is doing a terrible job. A recent audit found problems in the way they audit bids for work. I've spoken with people at road construction companies who have told me about changes that make the situation worse than a few years ago for the speed and cost of building roads. Policy things making it slower and more expensive that are baked in to the contracts. It's not just spending, which isn't efficient. Michigan has been (for decades) on the of the lowest spending states per capita on roads. This is across both Republicans and Democrats in the governor's seat.
- GravityisaHoax 4y ago
  No wonder their roads are so bad.
p1mrx 4y ago
These pillars?: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9825563,-83.7311805,3a,90y,351.93h,103.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOzGliaHWPkyza8aXvv4A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9825563,-83.7311805,3a,90y,3...
- paulmd 4y ago
  Yup! That next bridge 100 feet farther north looks even worse too, lol. Don't think you're supposed to be able to see the deck like that. From what I remember, that set of bridges has had problems with chunks coming off and hitting people as they drive on the highway. A chunk of concrete at 70mph is absolutely lethal.
  - wlesieutre 4y ago
    I was going to guess the opposite, you're supposed to be able to see the deck but they've stuck a layer under the bottom to keep debris from falling on the road
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    I wonder how much of the 2 trillion infrastructure bill will actually go to improving infrastructure
  - Gordonjcp 4y ago
    Those look incredibly spindly and fragile, even if they were in good condition. I don't think I've ever seen a road bridge constructed as delicately as that here in Scotland. I guess you don't get wind, rain, or snow there.
    - paulmd 4y ago
      > I guess you don't get wind, rain, or snow there. Hahahah. It's michigan. We get some of the more intense winter weather in the states. That's actually part of the problem, it's an extremely variable climate, we get over 100F in the summer and under 0F in the winter. It results in a lot of road wear compared to more southerly states, due to the freeze-thaw cycle. The west side of the state is comparable to New York, tons of lake effect snow. No hurricanes here though.
      - Gordonjcp 4y ago
        I guess these ones at the Baillieston Interchange on the M8 just outside Glasgow are about as thick, but they're much shorter. Of course down south there at below 56°N the weather's a lot gentler and kinder. https://goo.gl/maps/MD6ErnBZ4mzDdkup9 https://goo.gl/maps/MD6ErnBZ4mzDdkup9 If you spin round to look west at the M73 flyover you'll see they're a kind of tapered oval section, but they're also forming a triangle with the road deck which makes the structure a lot stiffer. I was surprised to discover how much concrete bends when I was doing radio comms work on the Queensferry Crossing project a bit north of Edinburgh. The road deck was built as steel sections with concrete on top and lifted into place, one side then the other. With them "unbalanced", one side lifted on but the other not lifted yet, the top of the 600-foot concrete towers - the top had a working platform about the size of four parking spaces - bent over by about six feet...
fabianhjr 4y ago
> it just never gets fixed. Its because public spending on infrastructure is "socialism" and it is better to give loans to private companies and let "the free market" fix the infrastructure; any day now. Its an unexplained miracle the US hasn't collapsed yet.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- swearwolf 4y ago
  It’s starting to. Remember that bridge in Pittsburgh that spontaneously collapsed? I’m sure there are many other lesser known examples.
  - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
    The PA bridge collapsed despite a recent (couple years prior) gas tax hike that was supposedly going to be used to prevent exactly that kind of outcome. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work if you suck at throwing and can't hit the problem.
- phkahler 4y ago
  >> Its because public spending on infrastructure is "socialism" and it is better to give loans to private companies and let "the free market" fix the infrastructure; any day now. nonsense. It's the governments job to do this maintenance. There are entire departments dedicated to it. The problem is that they are underfunded, in part because the money goes ummm somewhere else, and because for some reason taxing people or business enough to cover state expenses is considered bad practice.
  - xtian 4y ago
    Our "state expenses" in no way reflect the immediate needs of the people or any kind of popular democratic will. The average citizen in the US gets extremely little from the state relative to the taxes they pay, so opposing higher taxes is very rational.
phkahler 4y ago
>> There is a bridge in Flint where the support pillars are held together by giant steel clamps because the concrete is crumbling underneath them. They've been replacing a bunch of bridges on I-94 in Detroit. Many of them had lots of rebar showing on the pillars where the concrete had crumbled a way. Not just a bar showing, but a decent sized grid. It doesn't surprise me that a pedestrian bridge got overlooked with all the road bridges in need. Still no excuse.
exabrial 4y ago
The Democrats passed $1,000,000,000,000 Dollar "infrastructure" bill, of which 5% of which "went" to roads and bridges, and give the effectiveness of the government spending money, that's about .05% actually making it to the street. So one bridge might get fixed.
- neuronexmachina 4y ago
  Do you have a source for your "5%" claim? That conflicts with what I'm seeing here: https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-only-11-percent-bill-go-toward-real-infrastructure-trump-claims-1647063 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-only-11-percent-bil... > The 2,702-page bipartisan bill, summarized in a fact sheet issued by the White House, contains $550 billion in new spending, in addition to funding allocated each year for various infrastructure projects. The allocation for roads and bridges ($110 billion), railroads ($66 billion), airports ($25 billion) and ports ($17 billion) alone totals $218 billion, which is just over 18 percent of the overall spending over the 10-year period— significantly higher than the 11 percent touted by Trump. > An additional $240 billion is going toward upgrading and improving the nation's power grids ($73 billion), water infrastructure ($55 billion, plus another $8 billion for Western water infrastructure in response to ongoing droughts across the West), public transit systems ($39 billion) and broadband ($65 billion). In the past, all of that has typically fallen under the "public infrastructure" umbrella and would raise the share of "real infrastructure" to at least 38 percent. > The addition of more contentious elements that arguably fall under a looser definition of public infrastructure—such as safety enhancements ($11 billion), electric vehicle charging stations ($7.5 billion) and electric school buses ($7.5 billion), along with $47 billion for cybersecurity and climate change mitigation—would tip the total over 44 percent.
- hemreldop 4y ago

by paulmd 4y ago

mfer 4y ago

The Michigan Department of Transportation (MDOT) is doing a terrible job. A recent audit found problems in the way they audit bids for work. I've spoken with people at road construction companies who have told me about changes that make the situation worse than a few years ago for the speed and cost of building roads. Policy things making it slower and more expensive that are baked in to the contracts. It's not just spending, which isn't efficient. Michigan has been (for decades) on the of the lowest spending states per capita on roads. This is across both Republicans and Democrats in the governor's seat.

GravityisaHoax 4y ago
No wonder their roads are so bad.

p1mrx 4y ago

These pillars?: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9825563,-83.7311805,3a,90y,351.93h,103.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHPOzGliaHWPkyza8aXvv4A!2e0!7i16384!8i8192 https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9825563,-83.7311805,3a,90y,3...

paulmd 4y ago
Yup! That next bridge 100 feet farther north looks even worse too, lol. Don't think you're supposed to be able to see the deck like that. From what I remember, that set of bridges has had problems with chunks coming off and hitting people as they drive on the highway. A chunk of concrete at 70mph is absolutely lethal.
- wlesieutre 4y ago
  I was going to guess the opposite, you're supposed to be able to see the deck but they've stuck a layer under the bottom to keep debris from falling on the road
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  I wonder how much of the 2 trillion infrastructure bill will actually go to improving infrastructure
- Gordonjcp 4y ago
  Those look incredibly spindly and fragile, even if they were in good condition. I don't think I've ever seen a road bridge constructed as delicately as that here in Scotland. I guess you don't get wind, rain, or snow there.
  - paulmd 4y ago
    > I guess you don't get wind, rain, or snow there. Hahahah. It's michigan. We get some of the more intense winter weather in the states. That's actually part of the problem, it's an extremely variable climate, we get over 100F in the summer and under 0F in the winter. It results in a lot of road wear compared to more southerly states, due to the freeze-thaw cycle. The west side of the state is comparable to New York, tons of lake effect snow. No hurricanes here though.
    - Gordonjcp 4y ago
      I guess these ones at the Baillieston Interchange on the M8 just outside Glasgow are about as thick, but they're much shorter. Of course down south there at below 56°N the weather's a lot gentler and kinder. https://goo.gl/maps/MD6ErnBZ4mzDdkup9 https://goo.gl/maps/MD6ErnBZ4mzDdkup9 If you spin round to look west at the M73 flyover you'll see they're a kind of tapered oval section, but they're also forming a triangle with the road deck which makes the structure a lot stiffer. I was surprised to discover how much concrete bends when I was doing radio comms work on the Queensferry Crossing project a bit north of Edinburgh. The road deck was built as steel sections with concrete on top and lifted into place, one side then the other. With them "unbalanced", one side lifted on but the other not lifted yet, the top of the 600-foot concrete towers - the top had a working platform about the size of four parking spaces - bent over by about six feet...

fabianhjr 4y ago

> it just never gets fixed. Its because public spending on infrastructure is "socialism" and it is better to give loans to private companies and let "the free market" fix the infrastructure; any day now. Its an unexplained miracle the US hasn't collapsed yet.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
swearwolf 4y ago
It’s starting to. Remember that bridge in Pittsburgh that spontaneously collapsed? I’m sure there are many other lesser known examples.
- throwaway0a5e 4y ago
  The PA bridge collapsed despite a recent (couple years prior) gas tax hike that was supposedly going to be used to prevent exactly that kind of outcome. Throwing money at the problem doesn't work if you suck at throwing and can't hit the problem.
phkahler 4y ago
>> Its because public spending on infrastructure is "socialism" and it is better to give loans to private companies and let "the free market" fix the infrastructure; any day now. nonsense. It's the governments job to do this maintenance. There are entire departments dedicated to it. The problem is that they are underfunded, in part because the money goes ummm somewhere else, and because for some reason taxing people or business enough to cover state expenses is considered bad practice.
- xtian 4y ago
  Our "state expenses" in no way reflect the immediate needs of the people or any kind of popular democratic will. The average citizen in the US gets extremely little from the state relative to the taxes they pay, so opposing higher taxes is very rational.

phkahler 4y ago

>> There is a bridge in Flint where the support pillars are held together by giant steel clamps because the concrete is crumbling underneath them. They've been replacing a bunch of bridges on I-94 in Detroit. Many of them had lots of rebar showing on the pillars where the concrete had crumbled a way. Not just a bar showing, but a decent sized grid. It doesn't surprise me that a pedestrian bridge got overlooked with all the road bridges in need. Still no excuse.

exabrial 4y ago

The Democrats passed $1,000,000,000,000 Dollar "infrastructure" bill, of which 5% of which "went" to roads and bridges, and give the effectiveness of the government spending money, that's about .05% actually making it to the street. So one bridge might get fixed.

neuronexmachina 4y ago
Do you have a source for your "5%" claim? That conflicts with what I'm seeing here: https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-only-11-percent-bill-go-toward-real-infrastructure-trump-claims-1647063 https://www.newsweek.com/fact-check-does-only-11-percent-bil... > The 2,702-page bipartisan bill, summarized in a fact sheet issued by the White House, contains $550 billion in new spending, in addition to funding allocated each year for various infrastructure projects. The allocation for roads and bridges ($110 billion), railroads ($66 billion), airports ($25 billion) and ports ($17 billion) alone totals $218 billion, which is just over 18 percent of the overall spending over the 10-year period— significantly higher than the 11 percent touted by Trump. > An additional $240 billion is going toward upgrading and improving the nation's power grids ($73 billion), water infrastructure ($55 billion, plus another $8 billion for Western water infrastructure in response to ongoing droughts across the West), public transit systems ($39 billion) and broadband ($65 billion). In the past, all of that has typically fallen under the "public infrastructure" umbrella and would raise the share of "real infrastructure" to at least 38 percent. > The addition of more contentious elements that arguably fall under a looser definition of public infrastructure—such as safety enhancements ($11 billion), electric vehicle charging stations ($7.5 billion) and electric school buses ($7.5 billion), along with $47 billion for cybersecurity and climate change mitigation—would tip the total over 44 percent.
hemreldop 4y ago