4 ms·

No thanks. Unions might be good in theory but I don't trust my coworkers to collectively make decisions that are in my best interest. I would rather negotiate

No thanks. Unions might be good in theory but I don't trust my coworkers to collectively make decisions that are in my best interest. I would rather negotiate on my own and save myself union dues. Unions are basically like a HOA, and I would never lock myself into one of those either.

fzeroracer 4y ago
You're never negotiating on your own, you're negotiating against the entire labor market and what practices have been standardized or adopted. Nominally this can work if you work on the edges of the labor market (smaller shops) but standards are often set by the big tech companies as smaller ones seek to emulate their success. If you don't trust your coworkers, then you're placing your trust in companies to make decisions for you. And that's why we're seeing the rise in unionization again because it hasn't worked out that well.
- throwntoday 4y ago
  > If you don't trust your coworkers, then you're placing your trust in companies to make decisions for you Why do I have to trust either of them? My coworkers often seem intent on doing as little work as possible. They are somewhere between bourgeois and champagne socialist. Management is comprised of the same people. I think many are just lazy and have gotten worse over the last two years.
daniel-cussen 4y ago
You know depends on the job. For a coder no, I don't know, maybe not. Still would appreciate many of the things a union could do for me, but it doesn't line up that neatly. Whereas for a carpenter definitely. Or working in construction, I'm going to be part of a union somewhere, if there isn't a union I'll go to where there is one, if it's small and weak make it larger and stronger. And work like fuck while inside it, I love doing that, doing perfect work and sweet alienation while working. It's just too dangerous without a union, one of the big wins a union gives you is workplace safety. That's not a fucking joke, bosses do try to push you into bad working conditions for marginal amounts of money, just scream at you to work faster, that's just wrong. I could have lost fingers working under the Chilean minimum wage. I could have damaged my spine working a bottling station alone with three people on the other side, rotating my back too much too fast (like do I have to be a fucking doctor to know that that's harmful, if it hurts the wrong way I have to deflect that work). And plus, the wages are much better with unions, you get better raises, and you can actually--get this--bring up win-win situations for the company without getting cheated out of your upside completely. And I would love to pay Union dues. They're such little money, like nothing, like 1% or some meaningless shit? Even if they were 8%. The money you spend that you get nothing back from directly is the money that really gives you dignity. Like taxes, I love paying taxes too. Pay the fuck out of those taxes. Knock out those taxes.

fzeroracer 4y ago

You're never negotiating on your own, you're negotiating against the entire labor market and what practices have been standardized or adopted. Nominally this can work if you work on the edges of the labor market (smaller shops) but standards are often set by the big tech companies as smaller ones seek to emulate their success. If you don't trust your coworkers, then you're placing your trust in companies to make decisions for you. And that's why we're seeing the rise in unionization again because it hasn't worked out that well.

throwntoday 4y ago
> If you don't trust your coworkers, then you're placing your trust in companies to make decisions for you Why do I have to trust either of them? My coworkers often seem intent on doing as little work as possible. They are somewhere between bourgeois and champagne socialist. Management is comprised of the same people. I think many are just lazy and have gotten worse over the last two years.

daniel-cussen 4y ago

You know depends on the job. For a coder no, I don't know, maybe not. Still would appreciate many of the things a union could do for me, but it doesn't line up that neatly. Whereas for a carpenter definitely. Or working in construction, I'm going to be part of a union somewhere, if there isn't a union I'll go to where there is one, if it's small and weak make it larger and stronger. And work like fuck while inside it, I love doing that, doing perfect work and sweet alienation while working. It's just too dangerous without a union, one of the big wins a union gives you is workplace safety. That's not a fucking joke, bosses do try to push you into bad working conditions for marginal amounts of money, just scream at you to work faster, that's just wrong. I could have lost fingers working under the Chilean minimum wage. I could have damaged my spine working a bottling station alone with three people on the other side, rotating my back too much too fast (like do I have to be a fucking doctor to know that that's harmful, if it hurts the wrong way I have to deflect that work). And plus, the wages are much better with unions, you get better raises, and you can actually--get this--bring up win-win situations for the company without getting cheated out of your upside completely. And I would love to pay Union dues. They're such little money, like nothing, like 1% or some meaningless shit? Even if they were 8%. The money you spend that you get nothing back from directly is the money that really gives you dignity. Like taxes, I love paying taxes too. Pay the fuck out of those taxes. Knock out those taxes.