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This is a sentiment I see expressed all the time from friends and peers that are in engineering and product that I don't see as much on the sales side of things

This is a sentiment I see expressed all the time from friends and peers that are in engineering and product that I don't see as much on the sales side of things. I don't know if it's the Austin tech community that seems slightly more focused on treating your co-workers and employees with humanity, the nature or type of people on sales teams, or just a coincidence in my limited experience, but I tend to try to work at places where I genuinely like the people I'll be working with and build real friendships (though still in a different context than non work friendships) and it seems a lot better than other's experience. You have to spend ~1/3 of your waking life working in almost all cases and I can't imagine trying to frame it solely as an impediment to the other things I could be doing or other people I could be interacting with. I feel negative about work and the concept of work even a lot of the time, but I don't like the idea of fully giving into that and accepting that 1/3 of all my time will be captured by some not valuable time sink with people I'd rather not speak to. I don't think I could live that way for long. I was wooed by koolaid and 'perks' at companies when I was fresh out of school, but when that faded or failed, it was the people you could build relationships with, learn and win/fail with that really makes it tolerable to go into an office or spend 8 hours a day making someone else a bunch of money. My biggest question looking at orgs is if they look at people as human beings or cogs in a machine first, and at what level as you go up the chain, if any, that stops. When you read about Amazon forcing leadership to distance themselves from DR so they can not feel when they shrewdly make the business more efficient, that is one of the most glaring examples.

pessimizer 4y ago
> places where I genuinely like the people I'll be working with and build real friendships These are dangerous places to work for people who like co-workers because they hold up their end of the work, and have their own criteria for choosing friends. It turns work into high school, with an in-group and outgroups. Those outgroups will often be older people with children and lives, or something like all of the women or all of the Indians. I'm friends with people I would never work with, and I love working with people who I would never be friends with. People don't have to be everything for me, they just have to be at least one thing well. I choose my friends carefully, and they were difficult to find. A job is arbitrary people thrown together by their ability to do that job. The odds that I would want to be friends with a bunch of them are about the same as the odds that I would want to be friends with everyone at a random bus stop. The odds that I would want to work with them are a lot better. Settle for that. edit: I'm actually annoyed when I realize that a coworker would make a good friend. I have to say things to coworkers sometimes that I would never say to friends, because coworkers need to get shit done.
- pwillia7 4y ago
  Yeah I don't disagree with you entirely. I worked at a place with the 'outgroup' feeling you describe. I think the word 'friend' is too broad here. Maybe the French ami versus copain is more apt[1]. While I wouldn't say many co-workers are close friends, all but a handful have been or could possibly be good acquaintances. Another way to say it is I wouldn't mind spending a couple hours at a happy hour with them chatting. Since we're such social creatures and how that maps to our physical and mental health, I still worry too hard a line between the the two and how much we all work could be risky/detrimental. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/French/comments/3r0djp/ami_vs_copain/ https://www.reddit.com/r/French/comments/3r0djp/ami_vs_copai...

pessimizer 4y ago

> places where I genuinely like the people I'll be working with and build real friendships These are dangerous places to work for people who like co-workers because they hold up their end of the work, and have their own criteria for choosing friends. It turns work into high school, with an in-group and outgroups. Those outgroups will often be older people with children and lives, or something like all of the women or all of the Indians. I'm friends with people I would never work with, and I love working with people who I would never be friends with. People don't have to be everything for me, they just have to be at least one thing well. I choose my friends carefully, and they were difficult to find. A job is arbitrary people thrown together by their ability to do that job. The odds that I would want to be friends with a bunch of them are about the same as the odds that I would want to be friends with everyone at a random bus stop. The odds that I would want to work with them are a lot better. Settle for that. edit: I'm actually annoyed when I realize that a coworker would make a good friend. I have to say things to coworkers sometimes that I would never say to friends, because coworkers need to get shit done.

pwillia7 4y ago
Yeah I don't disagree with you entirely. I worked at a place with the 'outgroup' feeling you describe. I think the word 'friend' is too broad here. Maybe the French ami versus copain is more apt[1]. While I wouldn't say many co-workers are close friends, all but a handful have been or could possibly be good acquaintances. Another way to say it is I wouldn't mind spending a couple hours at a happy hour with them chatting. Since we're such social creatures and how that maps to our physical and mental health, I still worry too hard a line between the the two and how much we all work could be risky/detrimental. [1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/French/comments/3r0djp/ami_vs_copain/ https://www.reddit.com/r/French/comments/3r0djp/ami_vs_copai...