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I can tell that you like to live in your own reality. He violated the Espionage Act. He is a foreign agent, he won't say but supposedly now has Russian citizens

I can tell that you like to live in your own reality. He violated the Espionage Act. He is a foreign agent, he won't say but supposedly now has Russian citizenship. Quite the patriot, seeking shelter in one of the least free and most oppressive European nations he could find. He harmed the US and the UK, and assisted China and Russia. I realize you want to make that coward & villain out to be a freedom fighter, but I already provided a real freedom fighter. The comparison is stark. William Wallace didn't hide in Paris or Berlin. Neither did the modern day Wallace in Navalny. They stood in their homeland like men. Snowden? Good for a laugh, and will go down in history as such. He was just a boy who ended up harming, and outright turning on the nation he was supposedly liberating, then hid from the consequences.

user3939382 4y ago
It's odd and suspicious that you have so much hate and vitriol for Snowden while the silence is deafening on the highly illegal, democracy-destroying programs he exposed. He should be protected as a whistleblower, not prosecuted under the Espionage Act. He exposed crimes by the US govt whose severity and scale are hard to overstate. That should be your concern, not where he lives, that's an irrelevant diversion from the real topic. Snowden as a person doesn't matter, at all, 0%, the only thing that matters in this discussion are the crimes he exposed. Or how about James Clapper not being in prison after he lied about these programs under oath in front of Congress.
- BuckRogers 4y ago
  Why change the subject constantly? I was responding to- ask the average person who Snowden is And I told you who Snowden is. A coward, and a traitor to his former nation and people. He's easily exposed by looking at his actions. I have no position stated here on your various rabbit holes of whistleblower vs espionage, etc. I'm not a Constitutional scholar as you believe you are. What I can assure you, the ACLU and others would be more in front of abuse of power than you or some nerd here could ever pretend to be. Should he return "home" to show his courage, to follow through in his beliefs like actual national heroes have done throughout history. He harmed US and UK national security. He won't admit it (why would he, he won't even face justice in the "nation he loves") but they believe he handed over his harmful material to the Russians and Chinese for their protection. The guy is a Benedict Arnold, a scumbag, no matter how you slice it. Just because you like part of the information he exposed on surveillance doesn't change the rest, nor what the whole of his actions have revealed about his intentions and character. You've been duped by a false prophet.
  - user3939382 4y ago
    > ask the average person who Snowden is It's not changing the subject. The point of that statement was that most people are completely unaware of these issues. People shouldn't know who Snowden is because of his personality they should know him because of the information he revealed. You seem obsessed with him as a person for some reason. > I'm not a Constitutional scholar You don't have to be a constitutional scholar to understand that recording everything everyone is saying all the time is a violation of the 4th amendment. By your logic, only scholars are able to have legitimate opinions on the crimes of the government, no matter how plain and obvious they are. It's a good thing your philosophy wasn't held by the millions of people whose pressure and marches got the 13th amendment passed, almost none of them constitutional scholars. > the ACLU and others would be more in front of abuse of power than you They are in front, apparently you don't realize that the security state is more powerful than the ACLU. They've constructed secret courts (FISA) with secret laws written with words with secret interpretations, all designed to make these criminal programs legally impenetrable. The EFF has been suing over these problems for years, and took several years to even get a court to recognize its standing. > you or some nerd here could ever pretend to be And what is the point of this derogatory disrespectful statement? That because the ACLU exists, technologists that understand the mechanics of these abuses better than anyone should shut up and leave it the "scholars"? > He harmed US and UK national security... they believe he handed over his harmful material to the Russians and Chinese He handed over his evidence of US crimes to journalists who published it. If his goal was to hand over secrets to foreign governments he wouldn't have had it published in the news. Your evidence-free conspiracy theory isn't logical. > Just because you like part of the information he exposed Like it? He exposed some of the most heinous crimes of the US govt, who would like it? You apparently have no problem with these programs, which have already chilled free speech and protest against the government, because (I guess?) you're not "a scholar" and therefore unable to recognize crime when it's in your face, and because the citizens shouldn't be concerned about being the victims of crime or standing up for ourselves because the ACLU exists (???) The points you're making are increasingly illogical. > You've been duped Duped by black and white evidence that even the government concedes was real? How does that work?
    - BuckRogers 4y ago

user3939382 4y ago

It's odd and suspicious that you have so much hate and vitriol for Snowden while the silence is deafening on the highly illegal, democracy-destroying programs he exposed. He should be protected as a whistleblower, not prosecuted under the Espionage Act. He exposed crimes by the US govt whose severity and scale are hard to overstate. That should be your concern, not where he lives, that's an irrelevant diversion from the real topic. Snowden as a person doesn't matter, at all, 0%, the only thing that matters in this discussion are the crimes he exposed. Or how about James Clapper not being in prison after he lied about these programs under oath in front of Congress.

BuckRogers 4y ago
Why change the subject constantly? I was responding to- ask the average person who Snowden is And I told you who Snowden is. A coward, and a traitor to his former nation and people. He's easily exposed by looking at his actions. I have no position stated here on your various rabbit holes of whistleblower vs espionage, etc. I'm not a Constitutional scholar as you believe you are. What I can assure you, the ACLU and others would be more in front of abuse of power than you or some nerd here could ever pretend to be. Should he return "home" to show his courage, to follow through in his beliefs like actual national heroes have done throughout history. He harmed US and UK national security. He won't admit it (why would he, he won't even face justice in the "nation he loves") but they believe he handed over his harmful material to the Russians and Chinese for their protection. The guy is a Benedict Arnold, a scumbag, no matter how you slice it. Just because you like part of the information he exposed on surveillance doesn't change the rest, nor what the whole of his actions have revealed about his intentions and character. You've been duped by a false prophet.
- user3939382 4y ago
  > ask the average person who Snowden is It's not changing the subject. The point of that statement was that most people are completely unaware of these issues. People shouldn't know who Snowden is because of his personality they should know him because of the information he revealed. You seem obsessed with him as a person for some reason. > I'm not a Constitutional scholar You don't have to be a constitutional scholar to understand that recording everything everyone is saying all the time is a violation of the 4th amendment. By your logic, only scholars are able to have legitimate opinions on the crimes of the government, no matter how plain and obvious they are. It's a good thing your philosophy wasn't held by the millions of people whose pressure and marches got the 13th amendment passed, almost none of them constitutional scholars. > the ACLU and others would be more in front of abuse of power than you They are in front, apparently you don't realize that the security state is more powerful than the ACLU. They've constructed secret courts (FISA) with secret laws written with words with secret interpretations, all designed to make these criminal programs legally impenetrable. The EFF has been suing over these problems for years, and took several years to even get a court to recognize its standing. > you or some nerd here could ever pretend to be And what is the point of this derogatory disrespectful statement? That because the ACLU exists, technologists that understand the mechanics of these abuses better than anyone should shut up and leave it the "scholars"? > He harmed US and UK national security... they believe he handed over his harmful material to the Russians and Chinese He handed over his evidence of US crimes to journalists who published it. If his goal was to hand over secrets to foreign governments he wouldn't have had it published in the news. Your evidence-free conspiracy theory isn't logical. > Just because you like part of the information he exposed Like it? He exposed some of the most heinous crimes of the US govt, who would like it? You apparently have no problem with these programs, which have already chilled free speech and protest against the government, because (I guess?) you're not "a scholar" and therefore unable to recognize crime when it's in your face, and because the citizens shouldn't be concerned about being the victims of crime or standing up for ourselves because the ACLU exists (???) The points you're making are increasingly illogical. > You've been duped Duped by black and white evidence that even the government concedes was real? How does that work?
  - BuckRogers 4y ago