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It's pretty clear the epidemic of obesity and metabolic disease is largely caused by sugar https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM https://youtu.be/dBnniua6-oM

zamfi 4y ago
Sugar consumption peaked in 1997 [0] in the US. Obesity continues to rise. In Australia, sugar consumption dropped 23% (and other sweeteners dropped 16%) from 1980 to 2003, while obesity tripled. [1] There is more to the picture. [0] https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/11/a-chemical-hunger-part-ii-current-theories-of-obesity-are-inadequate/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/11/a-chemical-hunger-p... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257688/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257688/
philjohn 4y ago
And HFCS?
wbsss4412 4y ago
It’s not at all clear that the current epidemic is caused by sugar. Lustig is a great speaker, and I’ll admit that when I first watched that I was quite convinced. His position, however, is still not representative of a consensus within the field, and for good reason. While sugar consumption is likely detrimental to one’s overall health. Simply cutting out sugar is not necessarily going to lead to better weight management outcomes. While sugar consumption has increased over time, so have added fats and oils [0]. Which are much more calorically dense. It’s unlikely that any one food source is leading to the increases in obesity that we are seeing. [0] https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/82220/eib-166.pdf?v=7240.9 https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/82220/eib-166....
- uoaei 4y ago
  I learned a while back but don't have time to dig up sources now that eating simple carbs and fats together encourages your body to take the fast calories and store them as fat, moreso than eating simple carbs alone (fast energy, relatively clean-burning) or fats alone. These kinds of interactions are historically very important for explaining particular quirks of the effects of diets and I wouldn't be surprised at all if microplastics had some sort of catalytic effect, e.g. by being nucleation points for buildup of something (arterial plaque or whatever else).
- sgtnoodle 4y ago
  Sure, simply cutting out sugar but otherwise making poor dietary choices isn't going to lead to weight loss. Cutting out sugar tends to make it easier to eat healthy, though. Long term weight loss requires lifestyle changes. In my personal anecdotal experience, my weight gain and loss correlates to my caloric intake. When I've explicitly calorie counted, foods with refined carbohydrates are typically what blows up my count. When I've done low carb high fat and protein diets, I've found it difficult to eat too much, to the point of coming up several hundred calories short per day.
  - wbsss4412 4y ago
    I mean yes, that’s something of a tautology though. Cutting down on calories necessarily means cutting down on fat, carbs, or both (technically protein as well, but protein doesn’t generally seem to be the issue.) If you were to follow an explicitly low fat diet, it would be very difficult to eat junk food as well. Almost all junk foods are high in both fat and carbs at the same time. You are right about refined carbs. Most public health organizations advise limiting one’s consumption of those.
    - harpersealtako 4y ago
      I don't think "refined carbs are bad for you" is correct. Consider that many of the healthiest, least obese, longest lived societies on earth (e.g. Japan) have diets heavy in refined carbs (e.g. white rice).
  - rubicon33 4y ago
    Can you give an example of what a typical high calorie / high carb day looked like for you? I eat lots of carbs, always have... yet I don't seem to gain weight. I generally feel like, and am regarded by people who know me, as someone who "eats a ton" yet I have never struggled to lose weight. The X food causes obesity theory is just too simple IMO, that or I have a tape worm or some kind of undiagnosed disorder that results in me maintaining a pretty consistent BMI despite eating whatever and whenever I want.
    - 4y ago
- krasotkin 4y ago
  Consensus is not a necessary condition for truth. An idea can have no one believing it and be correct, and another idea can have everyone believing it and be wrong.
  - wbsss4412 4y ago
    Absolutely. That said, it does beg the question: why, 12 years after that video was published, has the field not come to an agreement, if it is “pretty clearly” the truth? One could come up with various explanations, including lobbying by big sugar, but it falls flat when you consider that the sugar industry is only a small fraction of the industrialized food industry, there’s plenty of lobbying and influence to go around. At the end of the day, there are only a few things that are clear: junk food is bad, Americans eat too many calories, and could stand to eat more fruits and vegetables.
    - teawrecks 4y ago
      The first person to suggest fossil fuels would leaf to global warming was in 1896. How long until the field came to an agreement?
      - wbsss4412 4y ago
        I don’t think I ever disputed that it can take a long time to reach consensus. It’s quite clear that there isn’t a consensus on what the truth is, ergo the truth is out there on what causes obesity and it isn’t to be found within the current consensus. However, do we take that to mean that sugar is the cause of obesity? I don’t see overwhelming evidence to that fact, so I personally don’t. What we can take is that whatever the truth is, it is not “clear” nor obvious at this point.
        teawrecks 4y ago
        I don't understand this statement: > One could come up with various explanations, including lobbying by big sugar, but it falls flat when you consider that the sugar industry is only a small fraction of the industrialized food industry, there’s plenty of lobbying and influence to go around. Are you saying that the sugar industry would be lobbying against larger industries with opposing goals? Or are you saying the sugar industry is just one of several industries who would like to use their money to push the blame around? I am not well versed in the agricultural industry, but doesn't the majority of our mass produced sugar come from the corn industry which is absolutely massive and will obviously do anything it can to protect its sources of income (sugar, ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.)?
- eslaught 4y ago
  I really, really recommend watching this lecture: The Human Microbiome: A New Frontier in Health by Susan Lynch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCaTQzjX2rQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCaTQzjX2rQ What food you eat certainly influences conditions in your gut, which influences your gut microbiome. On the other hand, your gut microbiome is highly persistent and even efforts to diet may not have the direct impact you'd think it would. Also, other factors (like conditions at birth) have strong effects that are highly persistent. If you're not familiar with this research you really owe it to yourself to learn about it.
  - k0k0r0 4y ago
    Indeed, this was very interesting. However, I missed a bit what changes to my diet I could do to improve myicrobiome. I would be glad to hear a scientist like her discussing this.
    - eslaught 4y ago
      This may not directly answer your question, but the Huberman Lab podcast [1] is done by a Stanford professor and generally includes very high quality summaries of recent research. He also provides actionable suggestions (though sometimes, the research is so new that they're still in the process of figuring this out). You can scroll through the home page and see the variety of topics he covers, there are a number on gut health. [1]: https://hubermanlab.com https://hubermanlab.com

zamfi 4y ago

Sugar consumption peaked in 1997 [0] in the US. Obesity continues to rise. In Australia, sugar consumption dropped 23% (and other sweeteners dropped 16%) from 1980 to 2003, while obesity tripled. [1] There is more to the picture. [0] https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/11/a-chemical-hunger-part-ii-current-theories-of-obesity-are-inadequate/ https://slimemoldtimemold.com/2021/07/11/a-chemical-hunger-p... [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257688/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3257688/

philjohn 4y ago

And HFCS?

wbsss4412 4y ago

It’s not at all clear that the current epidemic is caused by sugar. Lustig is a great speaker, and I’ll admit that when I first watched that I was quite convinced. His position, however, is still not representative of a consensus within the field, and for good reason. While sugar consumption is likely detrimental to one’s overall health. Simply cutting out sugar is not necessarily going to lead to better weight management outcomes. While sugar consumption has increased over time, so have added fats and oils [0]. Which are much more calorically dense. It’s unlikely that any one food source is leading to the increases in obesity that we are seeing. [0] https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/82220/eib-166.pdf?v=7240.9 https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/82220/eib-166....

uoaei 4y ago
I learned a while back but don't have time to dig up sources now that eating simple carbs and fats together encourages your body to take the fast calories and store them as fat, moreso than eating simple carbs alone (fast energy, relatively clean-burning) or fats alone. These kinds of interactions are historically very important for explaining particular quirks of the effects of diets and I wouldn't be surprised at all if microplastics had some sort of catalytic effect, e.g. by being nucleation points for buildup of something (arterial plaque or whatever else).
sgtnoodle 4y ago
Sure, simply cutting out sugar but otherwise making poor dietary choices isn't going to lead to weight loss. Cutting out sugar tends to make it easier to eat healthy, though. Long term weight loss requires lifestyle changes. In my personal anecdotal experience, my weight gain and loss correlates to my caloric intake. When I've explicitly calorie counted, foods with refined carbohydrates are typically what blows up my count. When I've done low carb high fat and protein diets, I've found it difficult to eat too much, to the point of coming up several hundred calories short per day.
- wbsss4412 4y ago
  I mean yes, that’s something of a tautology though. Cutting down on calories necessarily means cutting down on fat, carbs, or both (technically protein as well, but protein doesn’t generally seem to be the issue.) If you were to follow an explicitly low fat diet, it would be very difficult to eat junk food as well. Almost all junk foods are high in both fat and carbs at the same time. You are right about refined carbs. Most public health organizations advise limiting one’s consumption of those.
  - harpersealtako 4y ago
    I don't think "refined carbs are bad for you" is correct. Consider that many of the healthiest, least obese, longest lived societies on earth (e.g. Japan) have diets heavy in refined carbs (e.g. white rice).
- rubicon33 4y ago
  Can you give an example of what a typical high calorie / high carb day looked like for you? I eat lots of carbs, always have... yet I don't seem to gain weight. I generally feel like, and am regarded by people who know me, as someone who "eats a ton" yet I have never struggled to lose weight. The X food causes obesity theory is just too simple IMO, that or I have a tape worm or some kind of undiagnosed disorder that results in me maintaining a pretty consistent BMI despite eating whatever and whenever I want.
  - 4y ago
krasotkin 4y ago
Consensus is not a necessary condition for truth. An idea can have no one believing it and be correct, and another idea can have everyone believing it and be wrong.
- wbsss4412 4y ago
  Absolutely. That said, it does beg the question: why, 12 years after that video was published, has the field not come to an agreement, if it is “pretty clearly” the truth? One could come up with various explanations, including lobbying by big sugar, but it falls flat when you consider that the sugar industry is only a small fraction of the industrialized food industry, there’s plenty of lobbying and influence to go around. At the end of the day, there are only a few things that are clear: junk food is bad, Americans eat too many calories, and could stand to eat more fruits and vegetables.
  - teawrecks 4y ago
    The first person to suggest fossil fuels would leaf to global warming was in 1896. How long until the field came to an agreement?
    - wbsss4412 4y ago
      I don’t think I ever disputed that it can take a long time to reach consensus. It’s quite clear that there isn’t a consensus on what the truth is, ergo the truth is out there on what causes obesity and it isn’t to be found within the current consensus. However, do we take that to mean that sugar is the cause of obesity? I don’t see overwhelming evidence to that fact, so I personally don’t. What we can take is that whatever the truth is, it is not “clear” nor obvious at this point.
      - teawrecks 4y ago
        I don't understand this statement: > One could come up with various explanations, including lobbying by big sugar, but it falls flat when you consider that the sugar industry is only a small fraction of the industrialized food industry, there’s plenty of lobbying and influence to go around. Are you saying that the sugar industry would be lobbying against larger industries with opposing goals? Or are you saying the sugar industry is just one of several industries who would like to use their money to push the blame around? I am not well versed in the agricultural industry, but doesn't the majority of our mass produced sugar come from the corn industry which is absolutely massive and will obviously do anything it can to protect its sources of income (sugar, ethanol, alcohol, oil, etc.)?
eslaught 4y ago
I really, really recommend watching this lecture: The Human Microbiome: A New Frontier in Health by Susan Lynch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCaTQzjX2rQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCaTQzjX2rQ What food you eat certainly influences conditions in your gut, which influences your gut microbiome. On the other hand, your gut microbiome is highly persistent and even efforts to diet may not have the direct impact you'd think it would. Also, other factors (like conditions at birth) have strong effects that are highly persistent. If you're not familiar with this research you really owe it to yourself to learn about it.
- k0k0r0 4y ago
  Indeed, this was very interesting. However, I missed a bit what changes to my diet I could do to improve myicrobiome. I would be glad to hear a scientist like her discussing this.
  - eslaught 4y ago
    This may not directly answer your question, but the Huberman Lab podcast [1] is done by a Stanford professor and generally includes very high quality summaries of recent research. He also provides actionable suggestions (though sometimes, the research is so new that they're still in the process of figuring this out). You can scroll through the home page and see the variety of topics he covers, there are a number on gut health. [1]: https://hubermanlab.com https://hubermanlab.com