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> There existed philosophies you've never heard of, that are dead, because they died with the people who've followed them. Is it just chance? Nope. Religion te

> There existed philosophies you've never heard of, that are dead, because they died with the people who've followed them. Is it just chance? Nope. Religion tends to bring people together, often making them much more powerful as a group. But to me, it's just not worth selling out. > I think this is a focus exclusive to "nu-Christian" Anglosphere denominations I don't think that is the case. John 14:6 says: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me” So basically, if you don't believe in Jesus, you can't go to heaven. If that's not an effort to restrict doubt, then what is?

_gabe_ 4y ago
This is pretty disingenuous don't you think? In the same book a few chapters later we read: > Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” John 20:24-25 If that's not encouraging engaging with doubt I don't know what is. > If that's not an effort to restrict doubt, then what is? I can tell you that 1 + 1 = 2 and you can still doubt me. Just because you doubt me it doesn't make that statement any less true. Also, me stating that fact isn't me restricting doubt, it's just me stating a fact. If Jesus was God, and what He says here is true, He's stating a fact. You can choose to believe or not to believe, or doubt or not to doubt.
alfor 4y ago
But what is ’I’ in this sentence? Personally I see it a ’truth’ like in scientific truth and personal integrity. Imagine Jesus as the incarnation of the best possible person. I you where to try to based your actions in a similar way, what would you do? "No man comes to the Father but by me”: You won't be the best version of yourself by chasing any other things (fame, money, pleasure, etc) I too was disgusted by the first degree interpretation (obviously false) but I now discover a second degree reading that explain our human condition and most of our problems. Look into Peterson Biblical lecture on Youtube if you want to see a psychological way of looking at the bible.
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  One thing I dislike about Christianity in particular is how malleable to interpretation it is, making any kind of discussion with a Christian tedious. No matter what part of Bible you try to argue with, a Christian will always be able to say: "But that's not the real meaning! The real meaning is [thing I pulled out of thin air]", rendering your words moot, without actually engaging in your argument at all. I still can't figure out how to deal with it, which is why I usually refrain from arguing with religious people. Afterall, when it comes to the big questions (like, is there a god), neither one of us can bring anything to the table - it's impossible to know by definition. And since all religious teachings are based on the existence of a god, there is no way to convince anyone of anything without first proving the unprovable. It's like two completely different sets of axioms - of course the conclusions are gonna be different, and the concept of axioms being "right" or "wrong" is meaningless by itself.
  - alfor 4y ago
    I see it as a fusion of the campfire stories that humans have told themselves over thousand of years. The fact that it was written in a book gave it incredible power and have allow our civilisation to exist and science to be developed but also removed much of the evolutions of the stories. Now that our world change so fast the stories seems very outdated to our modern mind but most of them speak about a deep human conditions and traps we feel into multiple times. It hard to speak to christians as most see it a first level reading (literally true) but most people are not ready to go into deep analysis of meaning, they need a story to unite them, to show them a way to a good life and so it was for all people 200 years ago. Without those stories people put other things in its place (false idols) like money, pleasure, diversity and equity, communism, fascism, etc. To the question is there a God, the God of the bible is a mix of the natural environment (god of wind, god of the sun, etc) and the human civilisation ’thou shall not kill’ if you kill, God will be angry: you are going to have a bad time (at the hands of other humans) If you have the time, the Peterson lectures gave me a way to understand it that make sense to me (no bearded magician in the sky)
    - bheadmaster 4y ago

_gabe_ 4y ago

This is pretty disingenuous don't you think? In the same book a few chapters later we read: > Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came. So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.” John 20:24-25 If that's not encouraging engaging with doubt I don't know what is. > If that's not an effort to restrict doubt, then what is? I can tell you that 1 + 1 = 2 and you can still doubt me. Just because you doubt me it doesn't make that statement any less true. Also, me stating that fact isn't me restricting doubt, it's just me stating a fact. If Jesus was God, and what He says here is true, He's stating a fact. You can choose to believe or not to believe, or doubt or not to doubt.

alfor 4y ago

But what is ’I’ in this sentence? Personally I see it a ’truth’ like in scientific truth and personal integrity. Imagine Jesus as the incarnation of the best possible person. I you where to try to based your actions in a similar way, what would you do? "No man comes to the Father but by me”: You won't be the best version of yourself by chasing any other things (fame, money, pleasure, etc) I too was disgusted by the first degree interpretation (obviously false) but I now discover a second degree reading that explain our human condition and most of our problems. Look into Peterson Biblical lecture on Youtube if you want to see a psychological way of looking at the bible.

paskozdilar 4y ago
One thing I dislike about Christianity in particular is how malleable to interpretation it is, making any kind of discussion with a Christian tedious. No matter what part of Bible you try to argue with, a Christian will always be able to say: "But that's not the real meaning! The real meaning is [thing I pulled out of thin air]", rendering your words moot, without actually engaging in your argument at all. I still can't figure out how to deal with it, which is why I usually refrain from arguing with religious people. Afterall, when it comes to the big questions (like, is there a god), neither one of us can bring anything to the table - it's impossible to know by definition. And since all religious teachings are based on the existence of a god, there is no way to convince anyone of anything without first proving the unprovable. It's like two completely different sets of axioms - of course the conclusions are gonna be different, and the concept of axioms being "right" or "wrong" is meaningless by itself.
- alfor 4y ago
  I see it as a fusion of the campfire stories that humans have told themselves over thousand of years. The fact that it was written in a book gave it incredible power and have allow our civilisation to exist and science to be developed but also removed much of the evolutions of the stories. Now that our world change so fast the stories seems very outdated to our modern mind but most of them speak about a deep human conditions and traps we feel into multiple times. It hard to speak to christians as most see it a first level reading (literally true) but most people are not ready to go into deep analysis of meaning, they need a story to unite them, to show them a way to a good life and so it was for all people 200 years ago. Without those stories people put other things in its place (false idols) like money, pleasure, diversity and equity, communism, fascism, etc. To the question is there a God, the God of the bible is a mix of the natural environment (god of wind, god of the sun, etc) and the human civilisation ’thou shall not kill’ if you kill, God will be angry: you are going to have a bad time (at the hands of other humans) If you have the time, the Peterson lectures gave me a way to understand it that make sense to me (no bearded magician in the sky)
  - bheadmaster 4y ago