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If Discord had "a major role" then wow - you'd put a huge burden on everyone who enables any kind of communication. All of them would have to implement a heavyh

If Discord had "a major role" then wow - you'd put a huge burden on everyone who enables any kind of communication. All of them would have to implement a heavyhanded manual and automated censorship, with banning discussion of certain topics outright, use of machine learning to analyze sentiment... It would be the end of encryption (because if you don't combat encryption, you have a 'major role' in anything bad that happens). Of course Discord has no responsibility in what people talk about on their system. Otherwise they should claim partial ownership on all good ideas that come out of it too. I blame a divisive society pitting people against each other and allowing no middle ground, leading to radicalization, and the availability of guns that allow people to immediately act on their hate.

dfxm12 4y ago
What does it mean to blame something as abstract as "a divisive society"? That's bit of a cop out, don't you think? There are real people, coming from conservative think tanks, conservative politicians, etc., that put these ideas into the shooter's head and allow guns to be so available. Lay the blame there.
- flakovertarget 4y ago
  - mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
    It was 100% clear the Buffalo shooter verbatim quoted extremist conservative ideas and racism, even plagiarized another shooter's manifesto. > put ideas into the Antioch shooters head, the Waukesha drivers head, the NYC Subway shooters head I didn't follow those incidents - can you provide links/evidence that there were left/progressive political motivations in those acts? Or is this more so the same notion that McDonald's put ideas about food in the NYC subway shooters head?
    - leereeves 4y ago
      I've been reading about similar incidents to compare media coverage with Buffalo, so I can share some of the links you asked for: > [Accused NYC subway shooter Frank] James posted material on social media linked to black identity extremist ideologies, including the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, Black Liberation Army, BLM and an image of black nationalist cop-killer Micah Johnson [who killed five police officers in Dallas in 2016]. https://nypost.com/2022/04/13/suspect-frank-james-was-spewing-racist-hate-well-before-brooklyn-shooting/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/13/suspect-frank-james-was-spewin... > [Accused Waukesha parade killer Darrell Brooks shared] numerous posts attacking cops, comparing them to Ku Klux Klan members and calling them “violent street gangs” — as well as calling for violence toward white people, according to screenshots. https://nypost.com/2021/11/24/darrell-brooks-called-for-violence-against-white-people/ https://nypost.com/2021/11/24/darrell-brooks-called-for-viol... But I don't know which "Antioch shooter" flakovertarget was referring to; it seems Antioch is a dangerous place where shootings are common.
      - antifa 4y ago
        > There are also real people, coming from progressive think tanks, progressive politicans, etc., > material on social media linked to black identity extremist ideologies, including the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, Black Liberation Army, BLM, Micah Johnson Is there even one example of quote A dog whistling violence related to quote B? This sounds a lot like "This politician wanted milquetoast police reform, therefore is causing violent extremist black nationalism." It looks like a desperate reach for an equivalency that isn't there.
        leereeves 4y ago
        > This sounds a lot like "This politician wanted milquetoast police reform, therefore is causing violent extremist black nationalism." In much the same way that politicians wanting "milquetoast" restrictions on immigration are being accused of "dog whistling violence" in Buffalo. A reasonable person can see that progressive politicians who support BLM aren't calling for violence against police. A reasonable person can also see that conservatives who call for immigration restrictions aren't calling for attacks like Buffalo.
  - dfxm12 4y ago
    There are also real people, coming from progressive think tanks, progressive politicans, etc., that put ideas into the Antioch shooters head, the Waukesha drivers head, the NYC Subway shooters head. No there isn't. Please discuss in good faith.
    - overthetarget 4y ago
  - dang 4y ago
    Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=community%20identity%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
    - overthetarget 4y ago
      - dang 4y ago
        I don't think there's a double standard. People often jump to that conclusion after they see a few data points they dislike, but this is fraught with bias because data points you dislike stand out more. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
        throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        Howe many people need to complain about double standard being in the same general direction (i.e. the ban hammer coming down much faster on anyone arguing against whatever the majority opinion is here) before it becomes enough data points to matter?
        dang 4y ago
        Well, it depends on what you mean. If you mean how many data points before we care—we already care. That's why I take the time to respond to these things. If you mean how many data points before we change our mind—it's not a numeric function. I know how we do things and why, and I know that there isn't that kind of double standard.
- UweSchmidt 4y ago
  The "divisive society" is a cop out insofar as it doesn't lead to a simple solution. But it is the ultimate problem in our society preventing any kind of progress. We used to have a neutral ground of, say, a respected newspaper or TV show which had the ability to reign in radicalization, and would present issues by weighing both sides in a fair and representative way. This does no longer exist. It's us-vs-them, the other side is evil. Additionally our competitive society has no issue with creating and vilifying classes of losers and accepts a growing divide between rich and poor. There you have your shooters. There you have Trump 2024 or who else comes along (what kind of politician can only thrive in this climate?) My solution? I'd recommend everyone to smoke or drink some of your favorite drug or play some peaceful music and meditate over why the other side from your perspective is human, and what valid arguments they could have, or what made them think the way they do.
  - dfxm12 4y ago
    This is false equivalence when you see conservatives, via, among other avenues, the biggest cable news network, pushing, for example, white replacement theory and other bits of society are not.
  - dragonwriter 4y ago
    > We used to have a neutral ground of, say, a respected newspaper or TV show which had the ability to reign in radicalization, and would present issues by weighing both sides in a fair and representative way. No, we didn't. We used to have oligopolistic media with a fairly uniform set of biases and actively-pursued agendas across all outlets. Even farther back, media was more diverse and often hyperlocal, but still not “fair and representative”.
    - UweSchmidt 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine Similarly in Germany we used to have only had 3 state TV channels, ultimately controlled by the ruling parties. Thinking about it now, I'm sure it was quite biased in all kinds of ways. And yet, people got their vaccinations without rioting.

dfxm12 4y ago

What does it mean to blame something as abstract as "a divisive society"? That's bit of a cop out, don't you think? There are real people, coming from conservative think tanks, conservative politicians, etc., that put these ideas into the shooter's head and allow guns to be so available. Lay the blame there.

flakovertarget 4y ago
- mattbrewsbytes 4y ago
  It was 100% clear the Buffalo shooter verbatim quoted extremist conservative ideas and racism, even plagiarized another shooter's manifesto. > put ideas into the Antioch shooters head, the Waukesha drivers head, the NYC Subway shooters head I didn't follow those incidents - can you provide links/evidence that there were left/progressive political motivations in those acts? Or is this more so the same notion that McDonald's put ideas about food in the NYC subway shooters head?
  - leereeves 4y ago
    I've been reading about similar incidents to compare media coverage with Buffalo, so I can share some of the links you asked for: > [Accused NYC subway shooter Frank] James posted material on social media linked to black identity extremist ideologies, including the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, Black Liberation Army, BLM and an image of black nationalist cop-killer Micah Johnson [who killed five police officers in Dallas in 2016]. https://nypost.com/2022/04/13/suspect-frank-james-was-spewing-racist-hate-well-before-brooklyn-shooting/ https://nypost.com/2022/04/13/suspect-frank-james-was-spewin... > [Accused Waukesha parade killer Darrell Brooks shared] numerous posts attacking cops, comparing them to Ku Klux Klan members and calling them “violent street gangs” — as well as calling for violence toward white people, according to screenshots. https://nypost.com/2021/11/24/darrell-brooks-called-for-violence-against-white-people/ https://nypost.com/2021/11/24/darrell-brooks-called-for-viol... But I don't know which "Antioch shooter" flakovertarget was referring to; it seems Antioch is a dangerous place where shootings are common.
    - antifa 4y ago
      > There are also real people, coming from progressive think tanks, progressive politicans, etc., > material on social media linked to black identity extremist ideologies, including the Nation of Islam, Black Panthers, Black Liberation Army, BLM, Micah Johnson Is there even one example of quote A dog whistling violence related to quote B? This sounds a lot like "This politician wanted milquetoast police reform, therefore is causing violent extremist black nationalism." It looks like a desperate reach for an equivalency that isn't there.
      - leereeves 4y ago
        > This sounds a lot like "This politician wanted milquetoast police reform, therefore is causing violent extremist black nationalism." In much the same way that politicians wanting "milquetoast" restrictions on immigration are being accused of "dog whistling violence" in Buffalo. A reasonable person can see that progressive politicians who support BLM aren't calling for violence against police. A reasonable person can also see that conservatives who call for immigration restrictions aren't calling for attacks like Buffalo.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  There are also real people, coming from progressive think tanks, progressive politicans, etc., that put ideas into the Antioch shooters head, the Waukesha drivers head, the NYC Subway shooters head. No there isn't. Please discuss in good faith.
  - overthetarget 4y ago
- dang 4y ago
  Could you please stop creating accounts for every few comments you post? We ban accounts that do that. This is in the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. You needn't use your real name, of course, but for HN to be a community, users need some identity for other users to relate to. Otherwise we may as well have no usernames and no community, and that would be a different kind of forum. https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comment&storyText=false&prefix&page=0&query=community%20identity%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?sort=byDate&dateRange=all&type=comme...
  - overthetarget 4y ago
    - dang 4y ago
      I don't think there's a double standard. People often jump to that conclusion after they see a few data points they dislike, but this is fraught with bias because data points you dislike stand out more. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20dislike%20notice&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
      - throwaway0a5e 4y ago
        Howe many people need to complain about double standard being in the same general direction (i.e. the ban hammer coming down much faster on anyone arguing against whatever the majority opinion is here) before it becomes enough data points to matter?
        dang 4y ago
        Well, it depends on what you mean. If you mean how many data points before we care—we already care. That's why I take the time to respond to these things. If you mean how many data points before we change our mind—it's not a numeric function. I know how we do things and why, and I know that there isn't that kind of double standard.
UweSchmidt 4y ago
The "divisive society" is a cop out insofar as it doesn't lead to a simple solution. But it is the ultimate problem in our society preventing any kind of progress. We used to have a neutral ground of, say, a respected newspaper or TV show which had the ability to reign in radicalization, and would present issues by weighing both sides in a fair and representative way. This does no longer exist. It's us-vs-them, the other side is evil. Additionally our competitive society has no issue with creating and vilifying classes of losers and accepts a growing divide between rich and poor. There you have your shooters. There you have Trump 2024 or who else comes along (what kind of politician can only thrive in this climate?) My solution? I'd recommend everyone to smoke or drink some of your favorite drug or play some peaceful music and meditate over why the other side from your perspective is human, and what valid arguments they could have, or what made them think the way they do.
- dfxm12 4y ago
  This is false equivalence when you see conservatives, via, among other avenues, the biggest cable news network, pushing, for example, white replacement theory and other bits of society are not.
- dragonwriter 4y ago
  > We used to have a neutral ground of, say, a respected newspaper or TV show which had the ability to reign in radicalization, and would present issues by weighing both sides in a fair and representative way. No, we didn't. We used to have oligopolistic media with a fairly uniform set of biases and actively-pursued agendas across all outlets. Even farther back, media was more diverse and often hyperlocal, but still not “fair and representative”.
  - UweSchmidt 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FCC_fairness_doctrine Similarly in Germany we used to have only had 3 state TV channels, ultimately controlled by the ruling parties. Thinking about it now, I'm sure it was quite biased in all kinds of ways. And yet, people got their vaccinations without rioting.