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That's an interesting take. You're probably right, if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depres

That's an interesting take. You're probably right, if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed. Hardly anyone can be that special snowflake and create a successful startup, video game etc. And yet modern American culture is saying that you should go out and try doing it anyway. Guess what happens if you do...

AussieWog93 4y ago
>That's an interesting take. I get where you're coming from, but I think the fact that this take is at all interested says more about our culture than anything else. I'm not an anthropologist, but I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country".
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country". Most free, advanced countries say more. A common theory is that it's a matter of safety - look up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Much of the world for most of history felt very insecure, with food and survival at risk, and couldn't fulfill their 'higher' needs. And that might explain why, in these insecure times, we see (IME) many preaching the more basic needs and against the higher ones.
  - burntoutfire 4y ago
    > Most free, advanced countries say more. I'm not so sure. Europe is pretty conservative, and people tend to play it safe. Japan is obviously even more so. US is probably unique in its pushing the young to follow their dreams. This probably comes from its singular history - not so long ago, millions of regular American were starting successful ventures from scratch - whether it were farms in the wilderness of the West, or small businesses in towns. That was quite unique time and place in world's history, when the common man had actualy some agency and could conceivably start something from scratch with a good change of success. Meanwhile, Europe and the rest of the world was already mature, overcrowded and calcified, with little room for organic growth. Now, in XXI century, America in terms of opportunities is becoming more similar to rest of the world than to XIX century's past self - but the values and attitudes have not caught up to that yet.
wolverine876 4y ago
> if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed How does encouraging people to find passions and live them communicate that they are beneath some median path? It tells them they are valuable, and that their passion is important.
- burntoutfire 4y ago
  It's not what I meant. Let me rephrase. Most people will end up with an ordinary life (the "median path") - you simply can't have say a hundred million extraordinary people in a nation of 300m. Unfortunately, with the current programming which shows being average/ordinary as something lesser, a lot of them are going to end up seriously bummed out by where they end up in life.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    I see what you mean, but I disagree with the conclusion: First, everyone grows up and discovers they won't be an astronaut or Messi or President; it's not such an emotional hardship. Much better to reach for your dreams and make the best you can of them than to never have tried. There's nothing wrong with a little failure, (and less wrong with a lot!).
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  >It tells them they are valuable Does it? >and that their passion is important. Yes, but this is the point. Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them. What is that based on? I think it's quite the opposite: With some flexibility and creativity, you can make your life about something you're passionate about. I have little doubt about it.

AussieWog93 4y ago

>That's an interesting take. I get where you're coming from, but I think the fact that this take is at all interested says more about our culture than anything else. I'm not an anthropologist, but I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country".

wolverine876 4y ago
> I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country". Most free, advanced countries say more. A common theory is that it's a matter of safety - look up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Much of the world for most of history felt very insecure, with food and survival at risk, and couldn't fulfill their 'higher' needs. And that might explain why, in these insecure times, we see (IME) many preaching the more basic needs and against the higher ones.
- burntoutfire 4y ago
  > Most free, advanced countries say more. I'm not so sure. Europe is pretty conservative, and people tend to play it safe. Japan is obviously even more so. US is probably unique in its pushing the young to follow their dreams. This probably comes from its singular history - not so long ago, millions of regular American were starting successful ventures from scratch - whether it were farms in the wilderness of the West, or small businesses in towns. That was quite unique time and place in world's history, when the common man had actualy some agency and could conceivably start something from scratch with a good change of success. Meanwhile, Europe and the rest of the world was already mature, overcrowded and calcified, with little room for organic growth. Now, in XXI century, America in terms of opportunities is becoming more similar to rest of the world than to XIX century's past self - but the values and attitudes have not caught up to that yet.

wolverine876 4y ago

> if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed How does encouraging people to find passions and live them communicate that they are beneath some median path? It tells them they are valuable, and that their passion is important.

burntoutfire 4y ago
It's not what I meant. Let me rephrase. Most people will end up with an ordinary life (the "median path") - you simply can't have say a hundred million extraordinary people in a nation of 300m. Unfortunately, with the current programming which shows being average/ordinary as something lesser, a lot of them are going to end up seriously bummed out by where they end up in life.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  I see what you mean, but I disagree with the conclusion: First, everyone grows up and discovers they won't be an astronaut or Messi or President; it's not such an emotional hardship. Much better to reach for your dreams and make the best you can of them than to never have tried. There's nothing wrong with a little failure, (and less wrong with a lot!).
AussieWog93 4y ago
>It tells them they are valuable Does it? >and that their passion is important. Yes, but this is the point. Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them. What is that based on? I think it's quite the opposite: With some flexibility and creativity, you can make your life about something you're passionate about. I have little doubt about it.