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> Governments will likely fight this tooth and nail however, because crypto is currently an anti-government technology. Democratic governments represent the wi

> Governments will likely fight this tooth and nail however, because crypto is currently an anti-government technology. Democratic governments represent the will of the people, and I don't think a technology can be pro-government or anti-government, it ultimately depends on what the people what. I think you are correct though for autocratic governments. Would you for example say that guns are clearly anti-government or pro-government?

guerrilla 4y ago
> Democratic governments represent the will How are people still this naive and indoctrinated. Me, earlier: > You vote what you're told to vote by the media that the state and capital dominate entirely (Think about it: how would enough people even hear about an alternative idea or candidate that they don't deem in their interest?) If you're American you get to choose between two millionaires (or sometimes billionaires) with virtually identical economic politics chosen in advanced for you who can safely ignore you once they get elected. "Democracy."
- datadata 4y ago
  This is not naivety, it is just stating what the ideal is.
- kqr 4y ago
  Truly democratic governments would represent the will of the people. Representative democracy, on the other hand, often ends up being an elective aristocracy -- just like you say. Once we elect a small set of people to make decisions for us, a political class tends to emerge (those with resources and time to spend their days wooing people) and it is their will who is represented by government. The people simply select the least worst of those options.
- piva00 4y ago
  American-centrism is also bound to be a naive and indoctrinate way to be cynical... American democracy is a shitshow, not every democracy.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    Europe's no different, just more expensive to lobby. We have the exact same media structure. America's just a joke and seemingly filled with the most fanatic people of the idea I was responding to, which is why I used it as an example.
notch656a 4y ago
>Democratic governments represent the will of the people Such as the will of the people for pot to remain technically illegal throughout the entire nation, or the will of the people for a president to be elected with a minority vote? >Would you for example say that guns are clearly anti-government or pro-government? Neither. Guns are a tool usable by a variety of actors for a variety of purposes. Banning guns (or restricting them in a way that isn't restricted to the government such as implementing a burdensome taxation scheme for automatic weapons or short barreled rifles/shotguns) in non-government hands is firmly pro-government, however. Banning guns for 'felons' who are only that way because they are enemies of the state (such as pot dealers or someone who 'vandalized' a government owned wall with a work of art a la California felony vandalism laws) is firmly pro-government.
- datadata 4y ago
  > Neither. Guns are a tool usable by a variety of actors for a variety of purposes. Agree. Now replace guns with crypto and this is basically my position. There is obviously nuance for this kind of classification for any technology.
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Point taken, and agreed. I do think governments will eventually turn against (at least anonymized like XMR) crypto, the same way they turned against bearer bonds/shares. Governments in the past 50 years have been extremely resistant to bearer-like certificates with extraordinarily high value density.

guerrilla 4y ago

> Democratic governments represent the will How are people still this naive and indoctrinated. Me, earlier: > You vote what you're told to vote by the media that the state and capital dominate entirely (Think about it: how would enough people even hear about an alternative idea or candidate that they don't deem in their interest?) If you're American you get to choose between two millionaires (or sometimes billionaires) with virtually identical economic politics chosen in advanced for you who can safely ignore you once they get elected. "Democracy."

datadata 4y ago
This is not naivety, it is just stating what the ideal is.
kqr 4y ago
Truly democratic governments would represent the will of the people. Representative democracy, on the other hand, often ends up being an elective aristocracy -- just like you say. Once we elect a small set of people to make decisions for us, a political class tends to emerge (those with resources and time to spend their days wooing people) and it is their will who is represented by government. The people simply select the least worst of those options.
piva00 4y ago
American-centrism is also bound to be a naive and indoctrinate way to be cynical... American democracy is a shitshow, not every democracy.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  Europe's no different, just more expensive to lobby. We have the exact same media structure. America's just a joke and seemingly filled with the most fanatic people of the idea I was responding to, which is why I used it as an example.

notch656a 4y ago

>Democratic governments represent the will of the people Such as the will of the people for pot to remain technically illegal throughout the entire nation, or the will of the people for a president to be elected with a minority vote? >Would you for example say that guns are clearly anti-government or pro-government? Neither. Guns are a tool usable by a variety of actors for a variety of purposes. Banning guns (or restricting them in a way that isn't restricted to the government such as implementing a burdensome taxation scheme for automatic weapons or short barreled rifles/shotguns) in non-government hands is firmly pro-government, however. Banning guns for 'felons' who are only that way because they are enemies of the state (such as pot dealers or someone who 'vandalized' a government owned wall with a work of art a la California felony vandalism laws) is firmly pro-government.

datadata 4y ago
> Neither. Guns are a tool usable by a variety of actors for a variety of purposes. Agree. Now replace guns with crypto and this is basically my position. There is obviously nuance for this kind of classification for any technology.
- notch656a 4y ago
  Point taken, and agreed. I do think governments will eventually turn against (at least anonymized like XMR) crypto, the same way they turned against bearer bonds/shares. Governments in the past 50 years have been extremely resistant to bearer-like certificates with extraordinarily high value density.