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What "dogmatic beliefs" are you referring to here, that innocent and helpless people deserve our protection? I don't think that's controversial. We're not ani

What "dogmatic beliefs" are you referring to here, that innocent and helpless people deserve our protection? I don't think that's controversial. We're not animals. I'm well aware pregnancies are commonly spontaneously aborted, but the key word there is spontaneously, "without apparent cause or stimulus", i.e. not through the choice or neglect of the mother.

tialaramex 4y ago
> What "dogmatic beliefs" are you referring to here [...] We're not animals. See, you didn't need any help. Given that some were insistent that humans are not animals, and others were insistent that some ethnic or religious groups of humans aren't people, the resolution was to highlight that the latter claim is wrong, and give up on the other claim for the time being. This means that status of other species (e.g. octopuses) is not recognised in the UDHR. Arguably a realistic setting of priorities, but still unfortunate in my view of course. > the key word there is spontaneously So how is your intuition for other spontaneous events? If your child is spontaneously struck down by Influenza, too bad - they live or die and you're not bothered either way? If a work colleague falls down the stairs, and others present just leave them there, a motionless heap, stepping over the body - does that seem right to you?
- philsnow 4y ago
  > So how is your intuition for other spontaneous events? If your child is spontaneously struck down by Influenza, too bad - they live or die yes > and you're not bothered either way? of course I'd be bothered. elsewhere in this thread I mentioned grieving the loss of the two miscarriages that my wife and I knew about. > If a work colleague falls down the stairs, and others present just leave them there, a motionless heap, stepping over the body - does that seem right to you? Either you or I or both of us have really lost the thread here... I guess the falling down the stairs might be considered spontaneous but the others stepping over him instead of helping him is deliberate and probably reprehensible.

tialaramex 4y ago

> What "dogmatic beliefs" are you referring to here [...] We're not animals. See, you didn't need any help. Given that some were insistent that humans are not animals, and others were insistent that some ethnic or religious groups of humans aren't people, the resolution was to highlight that the latter claim is wrong, and give up on the other claim for the time being. This means that status of other species (e.g. octopuses) is not recognised in the UDHR. Arguably a realistic setting of priorities, but still unfortunate in my view of course. > the key word there is spontaneously So how is your intuition for other spontaneous events? If your child is spontaneously struck down by Influenza, too bad - they live or die and you're not bothered either way? If a work colleague falls down the stairs, and others present just leave them there, a motionless heap, stepping over the body - does that seem right to you?

philsnow 4y ago
> So how is your intuition for other spontaneous events? If your child is spontaneously struck down by Influenza, too bad - they live or die yes > and you're not bothered either way? of course I'd be bothered. elsewhere in this thread I mentioned grieving the loss of the two miscarriages that my wife and I knew about. > If a work colleague falls down the stairs, and others present just leave them there, a motionless heap, stepping over the body - does that seem right to you? Either you or I or both of us have really lost the thread here... I guess the falling down the stairs might be considered spontaneous but the others stepping over him instead of helping him is deliberate and probably reprehensible.