5 ms·

Apple blocks Pragmatic Programmers' release of iPhone book for developers

79 points by nickb 18y ago

immad 18y ago
Ridiculous
wayne 18y ago
I don't get how this helps Apple. They don't want Android copying their API or something? Guess it doesn't matter as long as the iPhone remains super popular. And man, it sucks to spend all that time writing a book, find a happy publisher, and then not be able to release it cause of this.
- adamc 18y ago
  Definitely a cautionary tale about getting involved with Apple technologies.
- jcromartie 18y ago
  The NDA was in place when they started writing it. I don't know why they assumed the NDA would be lifted with the release of the iPhone 2.0. It would have been great if it were lifted, but it wasn't. They knew the risk they were running.
  - jfarmer 18y ago
    Lots of companies have pre-release NDAs. That part is normal. The abnormal part is not lifting the NDA even after the launch of the second major version of your product.
    - axod 18y ago
      abnormal != evil though
      - jfarmer 18y ago
        Yeah, I don't think it's evil, but it does seem counter-productive.
- raganwald 18y ago
  it sucks to spend all that time writing a book, find a happy publisher, and then not be able to release it cause of this Seriously? You get some technology, sign an NDA saying you an't publish a book, write a book any ways, and then it sucks that nothing has changed? What exactly sucks other than the business plan of investing time and energy in the hope that someone else changes their mind about an agreement you signed?
  - bp001 18y ago
    The author did take a risk here, but the risk looked to be minimal upfront. It is amazing to that Apple continues to take this stance with their NDA. Any artificial barrier that cuts down on developer freedom and productivity will keep developers away from a platform. Yes, the author made the assumption that Apple understood that a level of openness is required take a platform's popularity to the next level.
    - raganwald 18y ago
      Any artificial barrier that cuts down on developer freedom and productivity will keep developers away from a platform. Yes, the author made the assumption that Apple understood that a level of openness is required take a platform's popularity to the next level. This is a point I see over and over again. People who are not Apple managers telling Apple what Apple ought to do to run their business successfully. I appreciate you are being sincere, but as a long-time Apple watcher, I also recall people saying much the same thing about clones, about running Windows, about sticking with OS9, about supporting Java on iPhone, about being bought by Sun, and a great number of other things that Apple chose not to do, or chose to do later, or chose to do and undo and not redo. You may be right that in some alternate universe Apple would be more successful if you called the shots instead of Steve Jobs. But if we can return to the point of the post, it is that Steve Jobs is the CEO, Apple is doing what it does rather than what you or I want it to do, and it is foolish to make bets that Apple will reverse one of their positions just because you or I think they ought to do so.
      - bp001 18y ago
markbao 18y ago
Is it just me, or is it sounding like Apple is coming out with their own line of iPhone manuals or something...?
mroman 18y ago
This is outrageous. That's it, I am going to refrain from purchasing any and all Apple products from here on, am going to encourage others to do the same, and will also refrain from recommending their products to anyone.
- wayne 18y ago
  Serious? That's hard core. This might discourage me from developing for the iPhone, but it's not going to make me buy a Zune over an iPod. :)
  - aston 18y ago
    The new Zune stuff is looking really good right now. Like better than iPod + iTunes good.
    - sunkencity 18y ago
      Just because apple sux there's no reason to go to microsoft. That's even worse. There are linux players that are pretty good. I think what's changing is that apple has always been as evil as microsoft. Only with much better PR. They are slipping now because there are new demands for openness which they fail to handle.
    - dcurtis 18y ago
      You're kidding right? Bash Apple all you want, but you have to admit that they create the best user experiences of any company around. Microsoft has proven for twenty years that it is incapable of creating a good user experience.
      - aston 18y ago
        Well, having tried both, I probably have a better perspective on the matter. However, I'll defer to authority: http://gizmodo.com/5050410/microsoft-beats-apples-itunes-genius-with-mixview http://gizmodo.com/5050410/microsoft-beats-apples-itunes-gen...
  - 18y ago
lux 18y ago
It doesn't sound like Apple actually blocked it, just that since they haven't lifted the NDA this can't be published yet, and since they don't seem to be concerned with lifting the NDA they probably won't publish it anytime soon. Additional developer resources, esp. a book from these guys, would be very welcome though...
- axod 18y ago
  Woah don't post the truth, this is apparently all about posting as many stories as possible that could be misinterpreted to show that Apple is evil.
- Harkins 18y ago
  Your subtle distinction comes down to: it's not that they blocked it, it's that they haven't stopped blocking it. I don't see a reason to treat that significantly differently.
  - raganwald 18y ago
    There's no reason to treat them differently, I agree. The question I have is why we're still talking about old news? I'm searching this story in vain for some aditional bit of information that is actionable in any way.
    - bp001 18y ago
      An NDA being in place is a bit of an abstract concept for people and can seem relatively harmless until you hear of concrete examples of how that has impacted participants. The reason this example is worthwhile is to aid the decision making process of those who are considering contributing to this platform. People need to fully understand the risks to invested time.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
jdg 18y ago
Key phrase: "which affects all publishers regarding this material". It's not just pragprog. There isn't any real news here other than they're taking it off their docket. Same situation as before with their last blog post about the [redacted] SDK NDA.
ashu 18y ago
That's a bad flamebait-ish headline. There is no news here. Everybody knows the NDA is still very much active. And, as bad as that is, it means the book was not going to be published, and it isn't.
- axod 18y ago
  It's a shame this sort of thing is consistently being voted up here recently.
- deleted 18y ago
  [deleted]
russ 18y ago
fuckingnda.com
utnick 18y ago
Has the iphone nda actually been enforced yet or even threatened to be enforced by apple? Or is this an issue like the chrome license that says goog owns everything you type, but obviously they aren't going around taking my words?
- ash 18y ago
  Google Chrome license was updated several weeks ago. See e.g. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/update-to-google-chromes-terms-of.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/update-to-google-chro... Extract: 11. Content license from you 11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.
- wmf 18y ago
  The difference is that Google changed their license after people complained. Presumably developers aren't pushing the boundaries of the NDA because they fear being banned for life, so there's nothing for Apple to enforce.
  - silencio 18y ago
    Exactly. Podcaster's adhoc distribution being blocked is a fantastic example. Netshare being banned from the app store is another. At this moment, unless you are a well known developer bitching a ton about this that Apple can't lash out at you without completely and utterly (and possibly irreversibly) screwing themselves over in the eyes of the Mac/iPhone dev community (i.e. Wil Shipley, Craig Hockenberry), you don't want to because this insanity is preferable to nothing at all because some cretin at Apple was like "woah, this person went overboard with the criticism..blacklisted".
    - jmatt 18y ago
      Netshare being banned from the app store is another. If you were lucky enough to buy Netshare when it was for sale - it still works (yay!). I wonder exactly what this means for future support for products such as Netshare. My guess is adhoc'ed distributions like Podcaster will be a pain in the but to provide updates for - but it'll be possible. Especially with the appropriate make / build script. I think those of us who own now banned applications may be in trouble in the future.
drawkbox 18y ago
You can only block technology progress from developers for so long before they find another platform.
- axod 18y ago
  Which would probably be good for both parties in this case.
boredguy8 18y ago
Where is Fake Steve Jobs when you need him?
- wmf 18y ago
  Maybe Real Steve Jobs hired him to run iPhone developer relations.
axod 18y ago
Summary: Apple has NDA, people wrote book ignoring the NDA, now shock horror they can't publish it. Some conclude Apple is evil.
- jrockway 18y ago
  Summary: Information exists in the Universe. Apple claims that gathering it and telling others about it is illegal.
froo 18y ago
As soon as I saw this headline I thought that the comments would be instantly split into 3 views. - The Apple Fanboys who say it isn't such a big deal - The haters looking for any excuse to heap ire upon Apple - The rest of us who are still confused as to why Apple hasn't released the NDA and the fallout that is happening as a result of it. Glad to see this submission delivers as originally thought.
- lallysingh 18y ago
  I'm #3, but my guess is that nobody @ Apple with a clue's responsible for the app dev program. The NDA & the app store absurdity are unusually dumb for apple. Whomever (is anyone?) is at top-level control of all this is seriously screwing up the potential for the next big platform. But they probably think it's irrelevant b/c the iPhone sales are still doing fine.
raganwald 18y ago
Apple builds a plantation. Sharecroppers move in, deciding of their own free will that life working for "Massa" is good. A sign at the front gate says, "The first rule of the Apple Plantation is that Sharecroppers do not talk about the Apple Plantation." So the sign is still up and the Pragamatic Programmers are waiting untilt he sign comes down. Interesting, but not a single bit of new information. Must be a slow news day for this to get so many votes. It would be news if the sign came down, or if Apple blessed the Pragmatic Programmers and said, "the sign doesn't apply to you."
- sovande 18y ago
  Hi Ragnwald didn't you plan on taking a break :)
  - raganwald 18y ago
    http://weblog.raganwald.com http://weblog.raganwald.com
    - sovande 18y ago
      I know, I'm a fan. I just noticed that all your comments on this post made it look like you where starting to blog again, but in HN comment section :-)
thomasmallen 18y ago
I've been using Macs my whole computing life, and I thought of them as Good until the first iPod worked with Windows. "But that's just business," you say, but in fact that represented a huge shift for Apple, and I recognized it immediately: Taking care of Mac customers was no longer Apple's chief concern, nor was creating great computers. Profit was the new obsession at company built by obsessions. I watched 2002's July Keynote (MacWorld) from my local, brand-spankin'-new Apple store, and only a handful of us [all Mac geeks in attendance] were excited about the iPod. We came to see about OSX 10.1, and whatever cool software Apple might be brewing up, and this threw us for a loop. Then next-gen iPods were available for Windows. Then I couldn't use FireWire with new iPods, even to charge them! And things have really deteriorated for us old-school MacAddicts since then. For one, MacAddict became MacLife (lame). Jobs killed off the "Sad Mac" and took all of the color and life out of the company. OSX 10.0-3 were great, 10.4 was OK, and Leopard is a goddamn trainwreck, relatively speaking. From that point on, it was all about the Benjamins in Cupertino. I was disgusted that Apple would so quickly switch to Intel processors after years of persuading us (proving, in my opinion) that PowerPC was the superior architecture. Having followed Apple for quite some time, I predicted back then that Apple would eventually just sell software, iPods, and other gizmos: Moving away from PowerPC would be the death-knell for Mac-exclusive software (specifically catering to Mac users), be it at the hands of Apple or Psystar. I could care less.
perezd 18y ago
Apple's approach to this whole development platform is really starting to bother me. I won't be investing in it until I can learn more about it from some of the most trusted authors in the biz.

79 points by nickb 18y ago

immad 18y ago

Ridiculous

wayne 18y ago

I don't get how this helps Apple. They don't want Android copying their API or something? Guess it doesn't matter as long as the iPhone remains super popular. And man, it sucks to spend all that time writing a book, find a happy publisher, and then not be able to release it cause of this.

adamc 18y ago
Definitely a cautionary tale about getting involved with Apple technologies.
jcromartie 18y ago
The NDA was in place when they started writing it. I don't know why they assumed the NDA would be lifted with the release of the iPhone 2.0. It would have been great if it were lifted, but it wasn't. They knew the risk they were running.
- jfarmer 18y ago
  Lots of companies have pre-release NDAs. That part is normal. The abnormal part is not lifting the NDA even after the launch of the second major version of your product.
  - axod 18y ago
    abnormal != evil though
    - jfarmer 18y ago
      Yeah, I don't think it's evil, but it does seem counter-productive.
raganwald 18y ago
it sucks to spend all that time writing a book, find a happy publisher, and then not be able to release it cause of this Seriously? You get some technology, sign an NDA saying you an't publish a book, write a book any ways, and then it sucks that nothing has changed? What exactly sucks other than the business plan of investing time and energy in the hope that someone else changes their mind about an agreement you signed?
- bp001 18y ago
  The author did take a risk here, but the risk looked to be minimal upfront. It is amazing to that Apple continues to take this stance with their NDA. Any artificial barrier that cuts down on developer freedom and productivity will keep developers away from a platform. Yes, the author made the assumption that Apple understood that a level of openness is required take a platform's popularity to the next level.
  - raganwald 18y ago
    Any artificial barrier that cuts down on developer freedom and productivity will keep developers away from a platform. Yes, the author made the assumption that Apple understood that a level of openness is required take a platform's popularity to the next level. This is a point I see over and over again. People who are not Apple managers telling Apple what Apple ought to do to run their business successfully. I appreciate you are being sincere, but as a long-time Apple watcher, I also recall people saying much the same thing about clones, about running Windows, about sticking with OS9, about supporting Java on iPhone, about being bought by Sun, and a great number of other things that Apple chose not to do, or chose to do later, or chose to do and undo and not redo. You may be right that in some alternate universe Apple would be more successful if you called the shots instead of Steve Jobs. But if we can return to the point of the post, it is that Steve Jobs is the CEO, Apple is doing what it does rather than what you or I want it to do, and it is foolish to make bets that Apple will reverse one of their positions just because you or I think they ought to do so.
    - bp001 18y ago

markbao 18y ago

Is it just me, or is it sounding like Apple is coming out with their own line of iPhone manuals or something...?

mroman 18y ago

This is outrageous. That's it, I am going to refrain from purchasing any and all Apple products from here on, am going to encourage others to do the same, and will also refrain from recommending their products to anyone.

wayne 18y ago
Serious? That's hard core. This might discourage me from developing for the iPhone, but it's not going to make me buy a Zune over an iPod. :)
- aston 18y ago
  The new Zune stuff is looking really good right now. Like better than iPod + iTunes good.
  - sunkencity 18y ago
    Just because apple sux there's no reason to go to microsoft. That's even worse. There are linux players that are pretty good. I think what's changing is that apple has always been as evil as microsoft. Only with much better PR. They are slipping now because there are new demands for openness which they fail to handle.
  - dcurtis 18y ago
    You're kidding right? Bash Apple all you want, but you have to admit that they create the best user experiences of any company around. Microsoft has proven for twenty years that it is incapable of creating a good user experience.
    - aston 18y ago
      Well, having tried both, I probably have a better perspective on the matter. However, I'll defer to authority: http://gizmodo.com/5050410/microsoft-beats-apples-itunes-genius-with-mixview http://gizmodo.com/5050410/microsoft-beats-apples-itunes-gen...
- 18y ago

lux 18y ago

It doesn't sound like Apple actually blocked it, just that since they haven't lifted the NDA this can't be published yet, and since they don't seem to be concerned with lifting the NDA they probably won't publish it anytime soon. Additional developer resources, esp. a book from these guys, would be very welcome though...

axod 18y ago
Woah don't post the truth, this is apparently all about posting as many stories as possible that could be misinterpreted to show that Apple is evil.
Harkins 18y ago
Your subtle distinction comes down to: it's not that they blocked it, it's that they haven't stopped blocking it. I don't see a reason to treat that significantly differently.
- raganwald 18y ago
  There's no reason to treat them differently, I agree. The question I have is why we're still talking about old news? I'm searching this story in vain for some aditional bit of information that is actionable in any way.
  - bp001 18y ago
    An NDA being in place is a bit of an abstract concept for people and can seem relatively harmless until you hear of concrete examples of how that has impacted participants. The reason this example is worthwhile is to aid the decision making process of those who are considering contributing to this platform. People need to fully understand the risks to invested time.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

jdg 18y ago

Key phrase: "which affects all publishers regarding this material". It's not just pragprog. There isn't any real news here other than they're taking it off their docket. Same situation as before with their last blog post about the [redacted] SDK NDA.

ashu 18y ago

That's a bad flamebait-ish headline. There is no news here. Everybody knows the NDA is still very much active. And, as bad as that is, it means the book was not going to be published, and it isn't.

axod 18y ago
It's a shame this sort of thing is consistently being voted up here recently.
deleted 18y ago
[deleted]

russ 18y ago

fuckingnda.com

utnick 18y ago

Has the iphone nda actually been enforced yet or even threatened to be enforced by apple? Or is this an issue like the chrome license that says goog owns everything you type, but obviously they aren't going around taking my words?

ash 18y ago
Google Chrome license was updated several weeks ago. See e.g. http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/update-to-google-chromes-terms-of.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2008/09/update-to-google-chro... Extract: 11. Content license from you 11.1 You retain copyright and any other rights you already hold in Content which you submit, post or display on or through, the Services.
wmf 18y ago
The difference is that Google changed their license after people complained. Presumably developers aren't pushing the boundaries of the NDA because they fear being banned for life, so there's nothing for Apple to enforce.
- silencio 18y ago
  Exactly. Podcaster's adhoc distribution being blocked is a fantastic example. Netshare being banned from the app store is another. At this moment, unless you are a well known developer bitching a ton about this that Apple can't lash out at you without completely and utterly (and possibly irreversibly) screwing themselves over in the eyes of the Mac/iPhone dev community (i.e. Wil Shipley, Craig Hockenberry), you don't want to because this insanity is preferable to nothing at all because some cretin at Apple was like "woah, this person went overboard with the criticism..blacklisted".
  - jmatt 18y ago
    Netshare being banned from the app store is another. If you were lucky enough to buy Netshare when it was for sale - it still works (yay!). I wonder exactly what this means for future support for products such as Netshare. My guess is adhoc'ed distributions like Podcaster will be a pain in the but to provide updates for - but it'll be possible. Especially with the appropriate make / build script. I think those of us who own now banned applications may be in trouble in the future.

drawkbox 18y ago

You can only block technology progress from developers for so long before they find another platform.

axod 18y ago
Which would probably be good for both parties in this case.

boredguy8 18y ago

Where is Fake Steve Jobs when you need him?

wmf 18y ago
Maybe Real Steve Jobs hired him to run iPhone developer relations.

axod 18y ago

Summary: Apple has NDA, people wrote book ignoring the NDA, now shock horror they can't publish it. Some conclude Apple is evil.

jrockway 18y ago
Summary: Information exists in the Universe. Apple claims that gathering it and telling others about it is illegal.

froo 18y ago

As soon as I saw this headline I thought that the comments would be instantly split into 3 views. - The Apple Fanboys who say it isn't such a big deal - The haters looking for any excuse to heap ire upon Apple - The rest of us who are still confused as to why Apple hasn't released the NDA and the fallout that is happening as a result of it. Glad to see this submission delivers as originally thought.

lallysingh 18y ago
I'm #3, but my guess is that nobody @ Apple with a clue's responsible for the app dev program. The NDA & the app store absurdity are unusually dumb for apple. Whomever (is anyone?) is at top-level control of all this is seriously screwing up the potential for the next big platform. But they probably think it's irrelevant b/c the iPhone sales are still doing fine.

raganwald 18y ago

Apple builds a plantation. Sharecroppers move in, deciding of their own free will that life working for "Massa" is good. A sign at the front gate says, "The first rule of the Apple Plantation is that Sharecroppers do not talk about the Apple Plantation." So the sign is still up and the Pragamatic Programmers are waiting untilt he sign comes down. Interesting, but not a single bit of new information. Must be a slow news day for this to get so many votes. It would be news if the sign came down, or if Apple blessed the Pragmatic Programmers and said, "the sign doesn't apply to you."

sovande 18y ago
Hi Ragnwald didn't you plan on taking a break :)
- raganwald 18y ago
  http://weblog.raganwald.com http://weblog.raganwald.com
  - sovande 18y ago
    I know, I'm a fan. I just noticed that all your comments on this post made it look like you where starting to blog again, but in HN comment section :-)

thomasmallen 18y ago

I've been using Macs my whole computing life, and I thought of them as Good until the first iPod worked with Windows. "But that's just business," you say, but in fact that represented a huge shift for Apple, and I recognized it immediately: Taking care of Mac customers was no longer Apple's chief concern, nor was creating great computers. Profit was the new obsession at company built by obsessions. I watched 2002's July Keynote (MacWorld) from my local, brand-spankin'-new Apple store, and only a handful of us [all Mac geeks in attendance] were excited about the iPod. We came to see about OSX 10.1, and whatever cool software Apple might be brewing up, and this threw us for a loop. Then next-gen iPods were available for Windows. Then I couldn't use FireWire with new iPods, even to charge them! And things have really deteriorated for us old-school MacAddicts since then. For one, MacAddict became MacLife (lame). Jobs killed off the "Sad Mac" and took all of the color and life out of the company. OSX 10.0-3 were great, 10.4 was OK, and Leopard is a goddamn trainwreck, relatively speaking. From that point on, it was all about the Benjamins in Cupertino. I was disgusted that Apple would so quickly switch to Intel processors after years of persuading us (proving, in my opinion) that PowerPC was the superior architecture. Having followed Apple for quite some time, I predicted back then that Apple would eventually just sell software, iPods, and other gizmos: Moving away from PowerPC would be the death-knell for Mac-exclusive software (specifically catering to Mac users), be it at the hands of Apple or Psystar. I could care less.

perezd 18y ago

Apple's approach to this whole development platform is really starting to bother me. I won't be investing in it until I can learn more about it from some of the most trusted authors in the biz.