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That spare solar power will be used for hydrogen production most of the time.

by _hypx 4y ago

Iwan-Zotow 4y ago
And where is it? I mean, CA duck is already there, but not a single cf of hydrogen produced
- ncmncm 4y ago
  Factories to make hydrogen electrolysers need to be built first. China got a jump on us and is selling electrolysers pretty cheap. Somebody is buying those.
  - tuatoru 4y ago
    To be cheap, they need to operate at multi-GW scale, have a long operating life, and good reliability.
    - ncmncm 4y ago
      You say so, but hydrogen production capacity is additive. More electrolysers, more hydrogen, up to the power available. But, as with solar, wind, and storage, prices will fall fast as production ramps up.
      - tuatoru 4y ago
        Which costs more to install, run and maintain: 100,000 10kW grid-connected PV installations, or one 1GW installation? I think it's the single installation. Likewise with hydrogen. Unless it is all used at the point of generation, and near enough at the time of generation (storing and transporting it is expensive energetically and in terms of capital assets, and risky), economies of scale apply. And domestic use isn't a good fit for "use it all now while the sun is shining".
- tuatoru 4y ago
  Yes, advocates for hydrogen need to explain this. My guess: there are major engineering challenges that drive up the cost. Storing and transporting hydrogen (compressed, adsorbed/absorbed or liquid) are difficult.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    The major use for hydrogen initially will be to push into underground reservoirs. It takes a long time to build out hydrogen handling infrastructure. After we are awash in cheap spare hydrogen, the handling infrastructure will grow by natural market forces. First things happen first.
- _hypx 4y ago
  https://www.airproducts.com/news-center/2022/04/0422-air-products-and-world-energy-sustainable-aviation-fuel-facility-in-california https://www.airproducts.com/news-center/2022/04/0422-air-pro... A lot of facilities are coming online.

That spare solar power will be used for hydrogen production most of the time.

by _hypx 4y ago

That spare solar power will be used for hydrogen production most of the time.

Iwan-Zotow 4y ago

And where is it? I mean, CA duck is already there, but not a single cf of hydrogen produced

ncmncm 4y ago
Factories to make hydrogen electrolysers need to be built first. China got a jump on us and is selling electrolysers pretty cheap. Somebody is buying those.
- tuatoru 4y ago
  To be cheap, they need to operate at multi-GW scale, have a long operating life, and good reliability.
  - ncmncm 4y ago
    You say so, but hydrogen production capacity is additive. More electrolysers, more hydrogen, up to the power available. But, as with solar, wind, and storage, prices will fall fast as production ramps up.
    - tuatoru 4y ago
      Which costs more to install, run and maintain: 100,000 10kW grid-connected PV installations, or one 1GW installation? I think it's the single installation. Likewise with hydrogen. Unless it is all used at the point of generation, and near enough at the time of generation (storing and transporting it is expensive energetically and in terms of capital assets, and risky), economies of scale apply. And domestic use isn't a good fit for "use it all now while the sun is shining".
tuatoru 4y ago
Yes, advocates for hydrogen need to explain this. My guess: there are major engineering challenges that drive up the cost. Storing and transporting hydrogen (compressed, adsorbed/absorbed or liquid) are difficult.
- ncmncm 4y ago
  The major use for hydrogen initially will be to push into underground reservoirs. It takes a long time to build out hydrogen handling infrastructure. After we are awash in cheap spare hydrogen, the handling infrastructure will grow by natural market forces. First things happen first.
_hypx 4y ago
https://www.airproducts.com/news-center/2022/04/0422-air-products-and-world-energy-sustainable-aviation-fuel-facility-in-california https://www.airproducts.com/news-center/2022/04/0422-air-pro... A lot of facilities are coming online.