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I think getting rid of (or renovating) old structures is a good thing. 100 year old houses are not generally fun to live in, unless they have been very very wel

I think getting rid of (or renovating) old structures is a good thing. 100 year old houses are not generally fun to live in, unless they have been very very well maintained to the point that it would have been cheaper to rebuild.

soperj 4y ago
I've been in 200+ year old structures in the Netherlands that are nicer than the majority of houses I've been to in NA.
- ajmurmann 4y ago
  How high-end and affordable were these buildings when they got constructed? I remodeled a ~300 year olds house in rural Germany. The building used to house at least two families till the first half of the 20th century. We had to in essence redo everything except for maybe 70% of the oak beams, totally change the layout, dig up and lower the floors to accommodate anyone but tiny people and build out the attic to make the building attractive at all. This building was at the equivalent of the village square when it was constructed. Had the village grown and turned into Al even a town, I'd hoped it would have been replaced a long time ago. I'm proud I got to take part in this work and will in all likelihood own it myself some day. If it wasn't a under heritage protection we'd likely not have preserved it though because it makes little economic sense.
- robswc 4y ago
  What sort of structures? And how are you deciding "nice" ? I do believe you, its just when I think of a nice structure to live in, good HVAC is a must and lots of place in Europe simply don't have AC... can't speak as to why that's the case but its one of those things you take for granted lol
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    Europeans do not consider AC a must. I live in an attic conversion on a very well to do street in Germany, and there is not a single AC unit in sight. It's not common at all, we do not care about it. We would rather get extremely hot and sweaty for a few days a year than make the investment for AC
    - robswc 4y ago
      Haha nice, respectable, you're crazy for that though! Perhaps its the climate too though. There's a cottage I stay at sometimes and it's so old, has no AC and practically suicidal when there's humidity.
      - bowsamic 4y ago
        Not crazy, we just aren’t so bothered by the heat. Restaurants in countries with AC are also insanely cold. Actually here in Europe we think Americans are crazy for wanting to be so cold all the time lol
        astrange 4y ago
        That must be why the software industry isn’t developed there, there’s nothing to cool down your brains from all the thinking. Japanese houses tend to have not good enough wall-mounted AC but the commercial buildings have it on freezing.
        bowsamic 4y ago
        What makes you say that the software industry isn't developed in Europe?
        astrange 4y ago
        Lack of ways for startups to grow outside selling to Americans (Booking, Skype, etc) and low quality of video games outside German farming simulators and British funny animal platformers.
        robswc 4y ago
        Fair. I think it just comes down to preference. Not sure if you can say one is better than the other. I had always just assumed everywhere had AC. Oddly enough, seemed like lots of buildings had it while the houses/apartments didn't. Maybe due to the body heat of so many ppl, it becomes necessary.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
michaelt 4y ago
That depends on how building standards have shifted in your location in the last 100 years - and the durability of construction methods used. Here in the UK most homes are built from brick, and in many regards standards of housebuilding have dropped a lot since the 1920s. A 100-year-old house will have its downsides (standards of insulation weren't high 100 years ago) but will often be more desirable than a new-build property.
- mbg721 4y ago
  Some older near-the-city-center suburbs of US cities have the same phenomenon. There are sometimes quirks like entire neighborhoods where all the houses have a different stained-glass window because there was a stained-glass guy nearby when they were built. That usually comes with the obligatory comment from every contractor or insurance person, "Yeah, wow, you couldn't get (x feature) made that way today for any price."
  - bobthepanda 4y ago
    In the US the postwar heyday of modernism resulted in a generation where the skills of artisan craftsmanship in construction were unneeded, so the remaining workers never trained anybody.
- brigandish 4y ago
  Quality standards have usually gone up, but space standards are the ones that tend to go down, whether that’s de facto because of the market/demand, or actual standards. The first step to improving this would be to vote out all the MPs who legislate in the interest of landlords- because most MPs are landlords. Reducing overall immigration would probably help too. A removal of housing benefit, which actually benefits businesses and not those receiving the “benefit”, by subsidising wages and inflating housing prices for desirable areas, instead of allowing prices to fall or for businesses to pay what’s needed, should be considered too.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    Quality standards have not gone up in the UK. Have you seen the quality of new builds? They are extremely poor
ekianjo 4y ago
> getting rid of (or renovating) old structures is a good thing. It's worse than that in Japan. They build everything cheaply and plan to destroy them in 50-60 years down the line, making investing in property a really bad plan as whatever you buy sees its value go to actual zero. This causes a massive economic strain on Japan.
- kalleboo 4y ago
  It seems like less of an economic strain than having housing becoming an investment that must go up at all costs, pricing everyone out.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    I'd be happy with the value of housing being more or less stable. In Japan they aggressively deprecate it to zero. That's what's destructive, like some kind of time-bomb on anything you buy.
- sgerenser 4y ago
  I thought it was more like 30 years?
- barry-cotter 4y ago
  That’s not how businesses or people plan. Discounted cash flow over 60 years means that a cost that’s 60 years away does not matter. Also, Japan went from bombed out wreck to one of the richest countries in the world with this attitude to property so if it hurts at all it’s a minor cost.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > Japan went from bombed out wreck to one of the richest countries in the world wit japan has been in stagnation if not recession since 1997. you may want to update that statement especially with the demographic timebomb ahead
    - 4y ago
Ekaros 4y ago
Also buildings were used differently from back then. Now we expect indoor toilets, bathrooms and so on. In even relatively recent past these really weren't standard. And they place entirely new restrictions and needs for structures that really weren't experienced to work so. Specially with moisture causing mold.

soperj 4y ago

I've been in 200+ year old structures in the Netherlands that are nicer than the majority of houses I've been to in NA.

ajmurmann 4y ago
How high-end and affordable were these buildings when they got constructed? I remodeled a ~300 year olds house in rural Germany. The building used to house at least two families till the first half of the 20th century. We had to in essence redo everything except for maybe 70% of the oak beams, totally change the layout, dig up and lower the floors to accommodate anyone but tiny people and build out the attic to make the building attractive at all. This building was at the equivalent of the village square when it was constructed. Had the village grown and turned into Al even a town, I'd hoped it would have been replaced a long time ago. I'm proud I got to take part in this work and will in all likelihood own it myself some day. If it wasn't a under heritage protection we'd likely not have preserved it though because it makes little economic sense.
robswc 4y ago
What sort of structures? And how are you deciding "nice" ? I do believe you, its just when I think of a nice structure to live in, good HVAC is a must and lots of place in Europe simply don't have AC... can't speak as to why that's the case but its one of those things you take for granted lol
- bowsamic 4y ago
  Europeans do not consider AC a must. I live in an attic conversion on a very well to do street in Germany, and there is not a single AC unit in sight. It's not common at all, we do not care about it. We would rather get extremely hot and sweaty for a few days a year than make the investment for AC
  - robswc 4y ago
    Haha nice, respectable, you're crazy for that though! Perhaps its the climate too though. There's a cottage I stay at sometimes and it's so old, has no AC and practically suicidal when there's humidity.
    - bowsamic 4y ago
      Not crazy, we just aren’t so bothered by the heat. Restaurants in countries with AC are also insanely cold. Actually here in Europe we think Americans are crazy for wanting to be so cold all the time lol
      - astrange 4y ago
        That must be why the software industry isn’t developed there, there’s nothing to cool down your brains from all the thinking. Japanese houses tend to have not good enough wall-mounted AC but the commercial buildings have it on freezing.
        bowsamic 4y ago
        What makes you say that the software industry isn't developed in Europe?
        astrange 4y ago
        Lack of ways for startups to grow outside selling to Americans (Booking, Skype, etc) and low quality of video games outside German farming simulators and British funny animal platformers.
      - robswc 4y ago
        Fair. I think it just comes down to preference. Not sure if you can say one is better than the other. I had always just assumed everywhere had AC. Oddly enough, seemed like lots of buildings had it while the houses/apartments didn't. Maybe due to the body heat of so many ppl, it becomes necessary.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

michaelt 4y ago

That depends on how building standards have shifted in your location in the last 100 years - and the durability of construction methods used. Here in the UK most homes are built from brick, and in many regards standards of housebuilding have dropped a lot since the 1920s. A 100-year-old house will have its downsides (standards of insulation weren't high 100 years ago) but will often be more desirable than a new-build property.

mbg721 4y ago
Some older near-the-city-center suburbs of US cities have the same phenomenon. There are sometimes quirks like entire neighborhoods where all the houses have a different stained-glass window because there was a stained-glass guy nearby when they were built. That usually comes with the obligatory comment from every contractor or insurance person, "Yeah, wow, you couldn't get (x feature) made that way today for any price."
- bobthepanda 4y ago
  In the US the postwar heyday of modernism resulted in a generation where the skills of artisan craftsmanship in construction were unneeded, so the remaining workers never trained anybody.
brigandish 4y ago
Quality standards have usually gone up, but space standards are the ones that tend to go down, whether that’s de facto because of the market/demand, or actual standards. The first step to improving this would be to vote out all the MPs who legislate in the interest of landlords- because most MPs are landlords. Reducing overall immigration would probably help too. A removal of housing benefit, which actually benefits businesses and not those receiving the “benefit”, by subsidising wages and inflating housing prices for desirable areas, instead of allowing prices to fall or for businesses to pay what’s needed, should be considered too.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  Quality standards have not gone up in the UK. Have you seen the quality of new builds? They are extremely poor

ekianjo 4y ago

> getting rid of (or renovating) old structures is a good thing. It's worse than that in Japan. They build everything cheaply and plan to destroy them in 50-60 years down the line, making investing in property a really bad plan as whatever you buy sees its value go to actual zero. This causes a massive economic strain on Japan.

kalleboo 4y ago
It seems like less of an economic strain than having housing becoming an investment that must go up at all costs, pricing everyone out.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  I'd be happy with the value of housing being more or less stable. In Japan they aggressively deprecate it to zero. That's what's destructive, like some kind of time-bomb on anything you buy.
sgerenser 4y ago
I thought it was more like 30 years?
barry-cotter 4y ago
That’s not how businesses or people plan. Discounted cash flow over 60 years means that a cost that’s 60 years away does not matter. Also, Japan went from bombed out wreck to one of the richest countries in the world with this attitude to property so if it hurts at all it’s a minor cost.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  > Japan went from bombed out wreck to one of the richest countries in the world wit japan has been in stagnation if not recession since 1997. you may want to update that statement especially with the demographic timebomb ahead
  - 4y ago

Ekaros 4y ago

Also buildings were used differently from back then. Now we expect indoor toilets, bathrooms and so on. In even relatively recent past these really weren't standard. And they place entirely new restrictions and needs for structures that really weren't experienced to work so. Specially with moisture causing mold.