4 ms·

Are you me? I'm 28, and genuinely feel angry about the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit that was shoved down our throat as t

Are you me? I'm 28, and genuinely feel angry about the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit that was shoved down our throat as teenagers and young adults. It's not a recipe for anything except burnout and depression. Staking your ego on being the "guy who knows a lot about technology/concept x" is even worse. Stick with your job, and make sure to keep time for your wife (or husband) and kids. You won't regret it.

bckr 4y ago
> genuinely feel angry about the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit I feel you on this, although I'm less angry and more feel silly for falling for it. That said, there was some healing that I experienced in my adventures as a young rebel.
burntoutfire 4y ago
That's an interesting take. You're probably right, if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed. Hardly anyone can be that special snowflake and create a successful startup, video game etc. And yet modern American culture is saying that you should go out and try doing it anyway. Guess what happens if you do...
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  >That's an interesting take. I get where you're coming from, but I think the fact that this take is at all interested says more about our culture than anything else. I'm not an anthropologist, but I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country".
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country". Most free, advanced countries say more. A common theory is that it's a matter of safety - look up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Much of the world for most of history felt very insecure, with food and survival at risk, and couldn't fulfill their 'higher' needs. And that might explain why, in these insecure times, we see (IME) many preaching the more basic needs and against the higher ones.
    - burntoutfire 4y ago
      > Most free, advanced countries say more. I'm not so sure. Europe is pretty conservative, and people tend to play it safe. Japan is obviously even more so. US is probably unique in its pushing the young to follow their dreams. This probably comes from its singular history - not so long ago, millions of regular American were starting successful ventures from scratch - whether it were farms in the wilderness of the West, or small businesses in towns. That was quite unique time and place in world's history, when the common man had actualy some agency and could conceivably start something from scratch with a good change of success. Meanwhile, Europe and the rest of the world was already mature, overcrowded and calcified, with little room for organic growth. Now, in XXI century, America in terms of opportunities is becoming more similar to rest of the world than to XIX century's past self - but the values and attitudes have not caught up to that yet.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed How does encouraging people to find passions and live them communicate that they are beneath some median path? It tells them they are valuable, and that their passion is important.
  - burntoutfire 4y ago
    It's not what I meant. Let me rephrase. Most people will end up with an ordinary life (the "median path") - you simply can't have say a hundred million extraordinary people in a nation of 300m. Unfortunately, with the current programming which shows being average/ordinary as something lesser, a lot of them are going to end up seriously bummed out by where they end up in life.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      I see what you mean, but I disagree with the conclusion: First, everyone grows up and discovers they won't be an astronaut or Messi or President; it's not such an emotional hardship. Much better to reach for your dreams and make the best you can of them than to never have tried. There's nothing wrong with a little failure, (and less wrong with a lot!).
  - AussieWog93 4y ago
    >It tells them they are valuable Does it? >and that their passion is important. Yes, but this is the point. Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them.
    - wolverine876 4y ago
      > Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them. What is that based on? I think it's quite the opposite: With some flexibility and creativity, you can make your life about something you're passionate about. I have little doubt about it.
wolverine876 4y ago
> It's not a recipe for anything except burnout and depression. Staking your ego on being the "guy who knows a lot about technology/concept x" is even worse. > the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit that was shoved down our throat as teenagers and young adults. My experience is that I'm not doing something I love (to some degree), that's what leads to burnout and depression. I know from some experience. And if I'm not also taking risks, I also become depressed and burnt out; I feel stagnated. Taking risks and failing is just much harder than it seems in the romantic stories, and certainly I need to moderate it to meet my tolerance for risk and failure, and I work hard to grow that tolerance and resiliance so that I can do more. Certainly you shouldn't stake your ego on its success - IME a sure way to make it unbearable - but in the effort, in doing the best you can, and in your growth. Risk is scary and failure hurts, but they are living, and I would miss a big part of the experience if I avoided them. There's no other way to grow, to learn about myself: what I love, what I don't, what I do well and don't; what suits me and doesn't. Also essential to the learning is not blaming others for my choices and their consequences - that is depression and, in a sense, burnout. We need to each find what suits us. I'll just say that ironically, the parent is a bitter and burnt-out comment. Is the path of avoiding risk actually safe from that? IME, there is no easy path through. > make sure to keep time for your wife (or husband) and kids Agreed! Hopefully, that is a primary passion for anyone.
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  >We need to each find what suits us. I'll just say that ironically, the parent is a bitter and burnt-out comment. Is the path of avoiding risk actually safe from that? IME, there is no easy path through. Oh, don't get me wrong. I run two actual, profitable businesses and aren't advocating for complete risk avoidance. I'm criticising specifically the "I kind of enjoy playing the guitar, therefore music is my passion, therefore I must study music and get a job as a musician and if I get a regular day job and start a family then I've failed" attitude that's shoved down young people's throats.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > I'm criticising specifically the "I kind of enjoy playing the guitar, therefore music is my passion, therefore I must study music and get a job as a musician and if I get a regular day job and start a family then I've failed" attitude that's shoved down young people's throats. Where do you see that message? People of that age that I know don't seem to think it. One person quit their engineering job and went to art school, but had no illusions. They found a steady, corporate day job using their art skills and setup their studio at home. Someone else has always loved playing bass and music, and quit their programming job to give it a try. Again, no illusions, but they are at least going to give it their all. I really admire that.

bckr 4y ago

> genuinely feel angry about the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit I feel you on this, although I'm less angry and more feel silly for falling for it. That said, there was some healing that I experienced in my adventures as a young rebel.

burntoutfire 4y ago

That's an interesting take. You're probably right, if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed. Hardly anyone can be that special snowflake and create a successful startup, video game etc. And yet modern American culture is saying that you should go out and try doing it anyway. Guess what happens if you do...

AussieWog93 4y ago
>That's an interesting take. I get where you're coming from, but I think the fact that this take is at all interested says more about our culture than anything else. I'm not an anthropologist, but I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country".
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > I'd be very surprised if there were many cultures that told their kids to do more than "get married, have kids, spend your time doing something of value to your tribe/village/country". Most free, advanced countries say more. A common theory is that it's a matter of safety - look up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. Much of the world for most of history felt very insecure, with food and survival at risk, and couldn't fulfill their 'higher' needs. And that might explain why, in these insecure times, we see (IME) many preaching the more basic needs and against the higher ones.
  - burntoutfire 4y ago
    > Most free, advanced countries say more. I'm not so sure. Europe is pretty conservative, and people tend to play it safe. Japan is obviously even more so. US is probably unique in its pushing the young to follow their dreams. This probably comes from its singular history - not so long ago, millions of regular American were starting successful ventures from scratch - whether it were farms in the wilderness of the West, or small businesses in towns. That was quite unique time and place in world's history, when the common man had actualy some agency and could conceivably start something from scratch with a good change of success. Meanwhile, Europe and the rest of the world was already mature, overcrowded and calcified, with little room for organic growth. Now, in XXI century, America in terms of opportunities is becoming more similar to rest of the world than to XIX century's past self - but the values and attitudes have not caught up to that yet.
wolverine876 4y ago
> if we make majority of people feel "beneath" the median path in life, most of them are bound to become depressed How does encouraging people to find passions and live them communicate that they are beneath some median path? It tells them they are valuable, and that their passion is important.
- burntoutfire 4y ago
  It's not what I meant. Let me rephrase. Most people will end up with an ordinary life (the "median path") - you simply can't have say a hundred million extraordinary people in a nation of 300m. Unfortunately, with the current programming which shows being average/ordinary as something lesser, a lot of them are going to end up seriously bummed out by where they end up in life.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    I see what you mean, but I disagree with the conclusion: First, everyone grows up and discovers they won't be an astronaut or Messi or President; it's not such an emotional hardship. Much better to reach for your dreams and make the best you can of them than to never have tried. There's nothing wrong with a little failure, (and less wrong with a lot!).
- AussieWog93 4y ago
  >It tells them they are valuable Does it? >and that their passion is important. Yes, but this is the point. Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them.
  - wolverine876 4y ago
    > Whatever passion young students have is unlikely to propel them through life and satisfy them. What is that based on? I think it's quite the opposite: With some flexibility and creativity, you can make your life about something you're passionate about. I have little doubt about it.

wolverine876 4y ago

> It's not a recipe for anything except burnout and depression. Staking your ego on being the "guy who knows a lot about technology/concept x" is even worse. > the anti-corporate "the system is for losers, follow your passion" shit that was shoved down our throat as teenagers and young adults. My experience is that I'm not doing something I love (to some degree), that's what leads to burnout and depression. I know from some experience. And if I'm not also taking risks, I also become depressed and burnt out; I feel stagnated. Taking risks and failing is just much harder than it seems in the romantic stories, and certainly I need to moderate it to meet my tolerance for risk and failure, and I work hard to grow that tolerance and resiliance so that I can do more. Certainly you shouldn't stake your ego on its success - IME a sure way to make it unbearable - but in the effort, in doing the best you can, and in your growth. Risk is scary and failure hurts, but they are living, and I would miss a big part of the experience if I avoided them. There's no other way to grow, to learn about myself: what I love, what I don't, what I do well and don't; what suits me and doesn't. Also essential to the learning is not blaming others for my choices and their consequences - that is depression and, in a sense, burnout. We need to each find what suits us. I'll just say that ironically, the parent is a bitter and burnt-out comment. Is the path of avoiding risk actually safe from that? IME, there is no easy path through. > make sure to keep time for your wife (or husband) and kids Agreed! Hopefully, that is a primary passion for anyone.

AussieWog93 4y ago
>We need to each find what suits us. I'll just say that ironically, the parent is a bitter and burnt-out comment. Is the path of avoiding risk actually safe from that? IME, there is no easy path through. Oh, don't get me wrong. I run two actual, profitable businesses and aren't advocating for complete risk avoidance. I'm criticising specifically the "I kind of enjoy playing the guitar, therefore music is my passion, therefore I must study music and get a job as a musician and if I get a regular day job and start a family then I've failed" attitude that's shoved down young people's throats.
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > I'm criticising specifically the "I kind of enjoy playing the guitar, therefore music is my passion, therefore I must study music and get a job as a musician and if I get a regular day job and start a family then I've failed" attitude that's shoved down young people's throats. Where do you see that message? People of that age that I know don't seem to think it. One person quit their engineering job and went to art school, but had no illusions. They found a steady, corporate day job using their art skills and setup their studio at home. Someone else has always loved playing bass and music, and quit their programming job to give it a try. Again, no illusions, but they are at least going to give it their all. I really admire that.