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For solar and other intermittent sources to be viable at scale, a continental long haul grid is needed, as well as a way to store power. Generally, you need 2x
by tomohawk 4y ago
For solar and other intermittent sources to be viable at scale, a continental long haul grid is needed, as well as a way to store power. Generally, you need 2x intermittent capacity to replace non-intermittent, as you need to be able to provide power, and store power at the same time.
- brianwawok 4y agoAC is a huge load for much of the US. Covering that with solar is a huge win even if you need something else for 10pm. Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.
- flavius29663 4y agoAnd not just AC, but the service economy runs during daytime for the most part.
- Wohlf 4y agoAC is a huge load now, with electrification heating will eclipse it. I can confirm this via my electric bill with a heat pump.
- missedthecue 4y agoNew AC designs seem to get about 1-2% more efficient every year, so we're making progress on both ends.
- megaman821 4y agoIt's funny people always forget this. There is a much bigger temperature differential to overcome to provide heating compared to cooling in most of the US. Burning natural gas for various forms of heat is probably the most energy intensive thing most houses do. Electricity is more efficient, but once heating is electrified, most residential electricity will be used to heat homes and water.
- dhc02 4y agoWith a modern heat pump, it is more efficient (most of the time) to burn natural gas at the power plant and then use the generated electricity to heat the home (after accounting for generation and line losses, and other efficiency drains) than it is to burn the gas in a modern, super-efficient gas furnace in the home. So whether we fully renewablize™ the grid or not, we still should encourage (read: subsidize) the replacement of gas and heating oil furnaces with heat pumps.
- kube-system 4y agoThe grid doesn't rely on a single source of generation at scale today, I don't see why doing solar at scale is any different. A big chunk of power usage follows the sun; you don't need to store anything until solar is more than that portion.
- tomohawk 4y agoThere's this little thing called the sun, and it doesn't shine a big chunk of the day. Right about when you need the most energy for heating and lighting.
- kube-system 4y agoElectricity usage generally peaks during daylight hours, and other sources of generation can be throttled to account for solar's lack of generation at night.
- tomohawk 4y agoOther sources being natural gas plants? Great plan.
- kube-system 4y agoYes, it does make more sense to use natural gas between 6-10pm than it does it use it 24/7, like we do now. And/or use hydro, which can also be throttled. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/expanded-view/electric_overview/US48/US48/GenerationByEnergySource-4 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/gridmonitor/expanded-view/el...
- ncmncm 4y agoUntil renewables are fully built out, storage is useless. So we burn natural gas at night for a while. When there is enough generating capacity to supply demand and charge storage at the same time, then we install the storage and charge it. Storage will be radically cheaper at that time than now. In the meantime, every spare dollar should go to building out renewables. At some point spending on mined gas declines naturally because it is the most expensive energy.
- zionic 4y agoA 10MV DC national transmission system would make a lot of sense.
- Panzer04 4y agoThis intuition can be kind of wrong - Long haul grid power isn't cheap, and it may turn out that large batteries on location will be more effective in many cases.
- ncmncm 4y agoEverybody will have everything. You draw down local batteries first, pull from transmission lines, convert from your long-term tankage, according to what your AI decides. Transmission line power costs money, drawing down your batteries causes wear, long-term storage has lower round-trip efficiency, yada yada.