5 ms·

I am all for trademarks. But 'only things made here can have this name' is silly protectionism. Adding electronics to 'fix fraud' really is just worsening the o

by rocqua 4y ago

I am all for trademarks. But 'only things made here can have this name' is silly protectionism. Adding electronics to 'fix fraud' really is just worsening the original product. If this goes through I would prefer the fraudulent stuff over the real deal.

mmanfrin 4y ago
You are free to buy or produce a hard dry sheep's cheese that isn't made in Emilia-Romagna. The name 'Parmesan' is a portmanteau of parts of the region (Parma, Reggio Emilia). The name is the region so saying 'only thing made here can have *the name of the region*' is absolutely not "silly protectionism".
- cheese_goddess 4y ago
  Parmesan is cow's milk cheese. You're thinking of Pecorino Romano, which is made with sheep's milk ("pecorino" is Italin for "from sheep").
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- gffrd 4y ago
  "Mmm, this Bordeaux is delicious!" "Do you mean 'Cabernet blend?' "
- stephenhuey 4y ago
  Exactly. Nuances in the region such as grass and soil can affect the final flavor of the cheese. In the same way, chocolate from Mozambique is very unique, and I expect when a bag of coffee says Ethiopia or Costa Rica on it, it really ought to be from that places. The places grown truly affect the flavor for single-origin products, but it won’t matter so much if you’re consuming cocoa or coffee that’s blandly mixed together from different regions.
  - 0des 4y ago
    terroir
- pcrh 4y ago
  "Parmesan" means "from Parma", the suffix -esan also occurs in words like courtesan, or partisan.
- robonerd 4y ago
  The American government has little interest in protecting the word 'Parmesan' itself; firstly because doing so would be inconvenient to American cheesemakers^, and secondly, because Americans don't speak Italian anyway and don't perceive an implication of "From Parma" from the word "Parmesan", even if such an implication is obvious to those who do know Italian. ^ Just as European cheese regulations protect European cheese interests, so do American cheese regulations protect American cheese interests.
detritus 4y ago
Are they not, fundamentally, one and the same?
guerrilla 4y ago
> I am all for trademarks. But 'only things made here can have this name' is silly protectionism Can you explain what you mean? This seems like a contradiction... Is branding not trademark? If you're for trademarks, why would someone else be permitted to use their branding? (Devil's advocate. I'm not actually all for trademarks.)
- rocqua 4y ago
  I believe trademarks protect customers by allowing a company to build a reputation and giving a customer certainty about who they are buying from. I do not believe trademarks that protect a region, rather than a company actually have benefit to a customer. Instead it feels to me like these regional trade-marks are ways a government can appease a local community by enshrining in law that they are the 'one true place'. This is benefiting the local community at the cost of anyone else who is capable of delivering the same quality but is now excluded only by virtue of their location. Or, looking at it more cynically, this is a way for people living on one side of a line to put one over on people living on the other side of the line. They do this by enshrining in law the idea "we are better than the people who do not live here" as if that is a permanent thing. The arrogance, the self-importance, entiteledness and small-mindedness of that really annoy me. Just because your region was the best at a thing at some point in history does not mean that, in perpetuity, other regions will never match your quality.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    The region is just a collection of companies... Identical logic applies. It's just as if one company bought up all the little ones, no different... > This is benefiting the local community at the cost of anyone else who is capable of delivering the same quality but is now excluded only by virtue of their location. No it's not, people can make better stuff and put their own brand on it... Nobody excluded from making better parmesean, only from lying that it's from that region when it's not...
iambateman 4y ago
It sounds like you are not all for trademarks.
- rocqua 4y ago
  I think a trademark should show you 'who' made it. Not 'where' it was made.
peoplefromibiza 4y ago
> is silly protectionism It's not silly. It's protecting the buyers from frauds. Parmigiano-Reggiano is made in Emilia Romagna, in the Parma-Reggio (Emilia) area. That's the only real deal. Like Champagne which is made only in the Champagne wine region in France. If it's not from there, it's not the same product. It might even be better according to personal taste, for example I prefer Franciacorta, which is from Franciacorta region in Lombardy. But it's not Champagne and can't be named after it. Can I call my search engine Google and act like I am the real Google? I guess not...
- lupire 4y ago
  Is there a quality control board, or does making the product in the area confer magical powers to the product?
  - Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
    Biotechnology, not magic. Different places have their own unique populations of mould, bacteria and mites that get into the cheese, which greatly affects the taste and texture. Culturally Americans are terrified of finding such things in their food supply, so it's easy to understand why they don't hold these protected designations of origin in high regard, nor are likely to do much to replicate the effects in their domestic versions.
  - morelisp 4y ago
    To get a DPO registration you must show both historical ties to the region and a specific regional method. There is a quality control board. Probably some of it is puffery; some of it is quite precise. https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/consortium-specifications-and-legislation/ https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/consortium-specifications...
    - Nullabillity 4y ago
      Ok, so why does the region matter, iff you follow the same method and live up to the same quality standards?
pengaru 4y ago
I don't see the problem, it's a sort of collective regional trademark that the makers of this traditional regional cheese carrying this specific branding (and their customers expecting authentic product) benefit from. If you don't have a problem with the likes of Apple litigating counterfeit products using their trademarked brand, why would you have a problem with this?
- rocqua 4y ago
  > If you don't have a problem with the likes of Apple litigating counterfeit products using their trademarked brand, why would you have a problem with this? Put simply, because I care about who manufactured electronics, but I don't care where cheese was made. I do care who made it, but not which village it comes from. Specifically the idea that one region is so special as to deserve legal protection offends me.
Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
I wouldn’t mind the knock-offs so much if they actually made an effort to replicate the taste and texture. While you could make rules that the products need to be at least in the same ballpark as what it says on the label, I imagine that would be quite difficult to enforce. It’s much easier to just go by an established local custom and just declare that to be the real deal.

by rocqua 4y ago

mmanfrin 4y ago

You are free to buy or produce a hard dry sheep's cheese that isn't made in Emilia-Romagna. The name 'Parmesan' is a portmanteau of parts of the region (Parma, Reggio Emilia). The name is the region so saying 'only thing made here can have *the name of the region*' is absolutely not "silly protectionism".

cheese_goddess 4y ago
Parmesan is cow's milk cheese. You're thinking of Pecorino Romano, which is made with sheep's milk ("pecorino" is Italin for "from sheep").
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
gffrd 4y ago
"Mmm, this Bordeaux is delicious!" "Do you mean 'Cabernet blend?' "
stephenhuey 4y ago
Exactly. Nuances in the region such as grass and soil can affect the final flavor of the cheese. In the same way, chocolate from Mozambique is very unique, and I expect when a bag of coffee says Ethiopia or Costa Rica on it, it really ought to be from that places. The places grown truly affect the flavor for single-origin products, but it won’t matter so much if you’re consuming cocoa or coffee that’s blandly mixed together from different regions.
- 0des 4y ago
  terroir
pcrh 4y ago
"Parmesan" means "from Parma", the suffix -esan also occurs in words like courtesan, or partisan.
robonerd 4y ago
The American government has little interest in protecting the word 'Parmesan' itself; firstly because doing so would be inconvenient to American cheesemakers^, and secondly, because Americans don't speak Italian anyway and don't perceive an implication of "From Parma" from the word "Parmesan", even if such an implication is obvious to those who do know Italian. ^ Just as European cheese regulations protect European cheese interests, so do American cheese regulations protect American cheese interests.

detritus 4y ago

Are they not, fundamentally, one and the same?

guerrilla 4y ago

> I am all for trademarks. But 'only things made here can have this name' is silly protectionism Can you explain what you mean? This seems like a contradiction... Is branding not trademark? If you're for trademarks, why would someone else be permitted to use their branding? (Devil's advocate. I'm not actually all for trademarks.)

rocqua 4y ago
I believe trademarks protect customers by allowing a company to build a reputation and giving a customer certainty about who they are buying from. I do not believe trademarks that protect a region, rather than a company actually have benefit to a customer. Instead it feels to me like these regional trade-marks are ways a government can appease a local community by enshrining in law that they are the 'one true place'. This is benefiting the local community at the cost of anyone else who is capable of delivering the same quality but is now excluded only by virtue of their location. Or, looking at it more cynically, this is a way for people living on one side of a line to put one over on people living on the other side of the line. They do this by enshrining in law the idea "we are better than the people who do not live here" as if that is a permanent thing. The arrogance, the self-importance, entiteledness and small-mindedness of that really annoy me. Just because your region was the best at a thing at some point in history does not mean that, in perpetuity, other regions will never match your quality.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  The region is just a collection of companies... Identical logic applies. It's just as if one company bought up all the little ones, no different... > This is benefiting the local community at the cost of anyone else who is capable of delivering the same quality but is now excluded only by virtue of their location. No it's not, people can make better stuff and put their own brand on it... Nobody excluded from making better parmesean, only from lying that it's from that region when it's not...

iambateman 4y ago

It sounds like you are not all for trademarks.

rocqua 4y ago
I think a trademark should show you 'who' made it. Not 'where' it was made.

peoplefromibiza 4y ago

> is silly protectionism It's not silly. It's protecting the buyers from frauds. Parmigiano-Reggiano is made in Emilia Romagna, in the Parma-Reggio (Emilia) area. That's the only real deal. Like Champagne which is made only in the Champagne wine region in France. If it's not from there, it's not the same product. It might even be better according to personal taste, for example I prefer Franciacorta, which is from Franciacorta region in Lombardy. But it's not Champagne and can't be named after it. Can I call my search engine Google and act like I am the real Google? I guess not...

lupire 4y ago
Is there a quality control board, or does making the product in the area confer magical powers to the product?
- Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago
  Biotechnology, not magic. Different places have their own unique populations of mould, bacteria and mites that get into the cheese, which greatly affects the taste and texture. Culturally Americans are terrified of finding such things in their food supply, so it's easy to understand why they don't hold these protected designations of origin in high regard, nor are likely to do much to replicate the effects in their domestic versions.
- morelisp 4y ago
  To get a DPO registration you must show both historical ties to the region and a specific regional method. There is a quality control board. Probably some of it is puffery; some of it is quite precise. https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/consortium-specifications-and-legislation/ https://www.parmigianoreggiano.com/consortium-specifications...
  - Nullabillity 4y ago
    Ok, so why does the region matter, iff you follow the same method and live up to the same quality standards?

pengaru 4y ago

I don't see the problem, it's a sort of collective regional trademark that the makers of this traditional regional cheese carrying this specific branding (and their customers expecting authentic product) benefit from. If you don't have a problem with the likes of Apple litigating counterfeit products using their trademarked brand, why would you have a problem with this?

rocqua 4y ago
> If you don't have a problem with the likes of Apple litigating counterfeit products using their trademarked brand, why would you have a problem with this? Put simply, because I care about who manufactured electronics, but I don't care where cheese was made. I do care who made it, but not which village it comes from. Specifically the idea that one region is so special as to deserve legal protection offends me.

Tabular-Iceberg 4y ago

I wouldn’t mind the knock-offs so much if they actually made an effort to replicate the taste and texture. While you could make rules that the products need to be at least in the same ballpark as what it says on the label, I imagine that would be quite difficult to enforce. It’s much easier to just go by an established local custom and just declare that to be the real deal.