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I'm curious to know which cheesemakers are using these chips. If you look at a wheel of Parmigiano (a whole one), you will see a number stamped on it. That's th

I'm curious to know which cheesemakers are using these chips. If you look at a wheel of Parmigiano (a whole one), you will see a number stamped on it. That's the cheesemaker's matriculation number in the consortium. There are 313 active ones right now. Some of them are very big (especially the ones in the lowlands) and some of them are very small (mostly the ones up in the hills). The small cheesemakers have trouble selling their current stock, so I doubt that they are putting tracking chips in their wheels. I can see a few big producers that work with the international market adding tracking chips to their wheels, but that's about it. Another fun fact, most cheesemakers are farmer coops and act as a sort of bank for the farmers. Most of them can borrow against their "share" of the cheese that is aging if they have a big capital expense that it coming up and they can't wait 2-3 years for the cheese to age and sell.

hkt 4y ago
I love the fact about them being coops and having the ability to borrow with their cheese as collateral. It is so old world and so wholesome. I'd like to borrow against my cheese one day.
- 0des 4y ago
  What type of cheese do you make?
  - EnergyCrush 4y ago
    This made me laugh so hard, not an ounce of bad intent to the previous post.
- zeristor 4y ago
  “Blessed are the cheese makers”
  - brianzelip 4y ago
    "Not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."
- nemo44x 4y ago
  You can borrow against most assets you own. Margin in your stock account, a mortgage or HELOC, etc. Credit cards are essentially based on your ability to repay much like borrowing against your future cheese revenue.
  - wahern 4y ago
    Modern finance and accounting more-or-less started in Renaissance Italy. Double-entry bookkeeping meant merchants and bankers kept good books. Good books and good accounting made negotiable instruments like bills of exchange (e.g. checks) and letters of credit reliable--at least when drawn on or issued by Italian banks and their partners around the continent--which meant travelers and traders didn't need to carry alot of currency or gold (dangerous), or resort to barter. Negotiable instruments in turn built up foreign exchange markets. Foreign exchange markets grew foreign financing. Larger, more liquid financing markets meant it became easier to borrow against assets (i.e. security). And on and on. Much of modern transactional banking and securities law became settled during that period, eventually becoming nearly universal across disparate legal regimes around the world.
    - PyWoody 4y ago
      Sounds interesting. I never would have assumed double-entry bookkeeping went back that far. Any good book suggestions?
      - el-salvador 4y ago
        A 1914 English translation of his 1499 Italian books from archive.org: https://archive.org/details/ancientdoubleent00geij https://archive.org/details/ancientdoubleent00geij
      - briandear 4y ago
        The Medici family supposedly invented it. Very fascinating family. https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/how-the-medici-family-created-and-lost-their-banking-empire/ https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/how-the-medici-family-...
- randbox 4y ago
- zdragnar 4y ago
  It's common for plant farmers in smaller countries too. I interviewed at a company that wanted to help banks lend to tiny farmers who have to borrow against future harvests to afford fertilizer / seed / equipment maintenance for the season ahead. Since many of these small farmers are geographically and technologically a long way off from where the banks are at, they don't get great rates because the banks (currently) don't have great tools for assessing the risk of any particular family farm.
  - brnaftr361 4y ago
    This is how debt peons are made, historically. Kinda sad to see the same patterns in the modern world.
    - danuker 4y ago
      Getting a bad rate doesn't mean you also accept it.
      - pempem 4y ago
        Having only cheese to create leverage limits your options
        brnaftr361 4y ago
        Sounded to me like they didn't even have the milk, and like they're in rural areas of developing nations.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
    - Panzer04 4y ago
      Isn’t this the classic use case for debt? Upfront funding to fund an investment?
      - 4y ago
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>The small cheesemakers have trouble selling their current stock, so I doubt that they are putting tracking chips in their wheels. That gives me trucking e-log vibes. The few big players who are already doing "the thing" use their control of the industry to force it on everyone else because it handicaps everyone who is at a scale that's too small for "the thing" to be cost effective.
Loic 4y ago
For the use of the cheese as collateral, a video showing the "cheese vault" of a bank[0] and a bank known to use cheese as collateral[1]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBPdU_iVcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBPdU_iVcI [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credito_Emiliano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credito_Emiliano
HelloNurse 4y ago
Embedding these chips is neither difficult nor expensively high-tech, and verification isn't performed by the cheesemaker: why shouldn't small establishments participate in the program? On an overseas store shelf the alternative is between real Parmigiano-Reggiano (if the experimentation is successful, with a chip) and counterfeit shit, not between different cheesemakers of the consortium (who, if they care, adopt their own trademarks and branding for particularly good cheese at premium prices).
- dagw 4y ago
  On an overseas store shelf the alternative is between real Parmigiano-Reggiano (if the experimentation is successful, with a chip) and counterfeit shit, not between different cheesemakers of the consortium On my overseas store shelf I have a choice between 3-5 different brands of real Parmigiano-Reggiano, with the most expensive one being twice the price of the cheapest one, so there is obviously some competition going on. The only other real competitor is Grana Padano, which most people consider a cheaper substitute. Of course one or more of those brands claiming to be Parmigiano-Reggiano might very well be fake and I'd have no way of knowing.
kmlx 4y ago
what i want to know is how can such a small community have so much clout in european politics that they managed to create the “Geographical Indication” so that no one else can create their own parmigiano cheese. do they fear competition that much? does their product really offer nothing extra compared to a parmigiano produced anywhere else?
- p_l 4y ago
  You don't really need political clout directly, though it helps to get politicians in ones country to be invested in the project. Quite often it's politicians that directly start working on this, even. The "protected designation of origin" is essentially a trademark that helps ensure that if you buy something marked "Parmigiano Reggiano" or "Parmesan", it's going to be cheese done using specific recipe, coming from its traditional, original region. It doesn't stop you from using the same recipe elsewhere, it just means you can't sell it as being the same. PDOs are generally used to protect local traditional products, though politics can get a bit cutthroat about it (I recall some... hot discussions regarding PDO for vodka)
- HelloNurse 4y ago
  The different formal varieties of geographical indications and restricted names are commonly adopted for cheese, wine, and many other quality foods. It only takes a critical mass of motivated makers and a reasonable traditional product, not "clout in European politics"; Parmigiano-Reggiano is merely popular, easy to imitate, and therefore in need of protection.
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  Imagine a kansas farm producing texan beef. Then a nebraskan farm joining in. What's to stop ottowa from taking a slice of the pie?
bradknowles 4y ago
I learned a lot about Parmegiano Reggiano when I was working at Whole Foods. I was told they crack more wheels than any other grocery chain in the world, and that each wheel cost like $1800.00 (well, it did pre-COVID). IIRC, on average, they crack one wheel per store per day. You can also sign up for classes where you watch them crack a wheel and then do a sample of various cheese flavors. It is interesting to find out more about the production side of these wheels. Thank you!

hkt 4y ago

I love the fact about them being coops and having the ability to borrow with their cheese as collateral. It is so old world and so wholesome. I'd like to borrow against my cheese one day.

0des 4y ago
What type of cheese do you make?
- EnergyCrush 4y ago
  This made me laugh so hard, not an ounce of bad intent to the previous post.
zeristor 4y ago
“Blessed are the cheese makers”
- brianzelip 4y ago
  "Not meant to be taken literally, it refers to any manufacturers of dairy products."
nemo44x 4y ago
You can borrow against most assets you own. Margin in your stock account, a mortgage or HELOC, etc. Credit cards are essentially based on your ability to repay much like borrowing against your future cheese revenue.
- wahern 4y ago
  Modern finance and accounting more-or-less started in Renaissance Italy. Double-entry bookkeeping meant merchants and bankers kept good books. Good books and good accounting made negotiable instruments like bills of exchange (e.g. checks) and letters of credit reliable--at least when drawn on or issued by Italian banks and their partners around the continent--which meant travelers and traders didn't need to carry alot of currency or gold (dangerous), or resort to barter. Negotiable instruments in turn built up foreign exchange markets. Foreign exchange markets grew foreign financing. Larger, more liquid financing markets meant it became easier to borrow against assets (i.e. security). And on and on. Much of modern transactional banking and securities law became settled during that period, eventually becoming nearly universal across disparate legal regimes around the world.
  - PyWoody 4y ago
    Sounds interesting. I never would have assumed double-entry bookkeeping went back that far. Any good book suggestions?
    - el-salvador 4y ago
      A 1914 English translation of his 1499 Italian books from archive.org: https://archive.org/details/ancientdoubleent00geij https://archive.org/details/ancientdoubleent00geij
    - briandear 4y ago
      The Medici family supposedly invented it. Very fascinating family. https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/how-the-medici-family-created-and-lost-their-banking-empire/ https://bigthink.com/culture-religion/how-the-medici-family-...
randbox 4y ago
zdragnar 4y ago
It's common for plant farmers in smaller countries too. I interviewed at a company that wanted to help banks lend to tiny farmers who have to borrow against future harvests to afford fertilizer / seed / equipment maintenance for the season ahead. Since many of these small farmers are geographically and technologically a long way off from where the banks are at, they don't get great rates because the banks (currently) don't have great tools for assessing the risk of any particular family farm.
- brnaftr361 4y ago
  This is how debt peons are made, historically. Kinda sad to see the same patterns in the modern world.
  - danuker 4y ago
    Getting a bad rate doesn't mean you also accept it.
    - pempem 4y ago
      Having only cheese to create leverage limits your options
      - brnaftr361 4y ago
        Sounded to me like they didn't even have the milk, and like they're in rural areas of developing nations.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - Panzer04 4y ago
    Isn’t this the classic use case for debt? Upfront funding to fund an investment?
    - 4y ago

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

>The small cheesemakers have trouble selling their current stock, so I doubt that they are putting tracking chips in their wheels. That gives me trucking e-log vibes. The few big players who are already doing "the thing" use their control of the industry to force it on everyone else because it handicaps everyone who is at a scale that's too small for "the thing" to be cost effective.

Loic 4y ago

For the use of the cheese as collateral, a video showing the "cheese vault" of a bank[0] and a bank known to use cheese as collateral[1]. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBPdU_iVcI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzBPdU_iVcI [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credito_Emiliano https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Credito_Emiliano

HelloNurse 4y ago

Embedding these chips is neither difficult nor expensively high-tech, and verification isn't performed by the cheesemaker: why shouldn't small establishments participate in the program? On an overseas store shelf the alternative is between real Parmigiano-Reggiano (if the experimentation is successful, with a chip) and counterfeit shit, not between different cheesemakers of the consortium (who, if they care, adopt their own trademarks and branding for particularly good cheese at premium prices).

dagw 4y ago
On an overseas store shelf the alternative is between real Parmigiano-Reggiano (if the experimentation is successful, with a chip) and counterfeit shit, not between different cheesemakers of the consortium On my overseas store shelf I have a choice between 3-5 different brands of real Parmigiano-Reggiano, with the most expensive one being twice the price of the cheapest one, so there is obviously some competition going on. The only other real competitor is Grana Padano, which most people consider a cheaper substitute. Of course one or more of those brands claiming to be Parmigiano-Reggiano might very well be fake and I'd have no way of knowing.

kmlx 4y ago

what i want to know is how can such a small community have so much clout in european politics that they managed to create the “Geographical Indication” so that no one else can create their own parmigiano cheese. do they fear competition that much? does their product really offer nothing extra compared to a parmigiano produced anywhere else?

p_l 4y ago
You don't really need political clout directly, though it helps to get politicians in ones country to be invested in the project. Quite often it's politicians that directly start working on this, even. The "protected designation of origin" is essentially a trademark that helps ensure that if you buy something marked "Parmigiano Reggiano" or "Parmesan", it's going to be cheese done using specific recipe, coming from its traditional, original region. It doesn't stop you from using the same recipe elsewhere, it just means you can't sell it as being the same. PDOs are generally used to protect local traditional products, though politics can get a bit cutthroat about it (I recall some... hot discussions regarding PDO for vodka)
HelloNurse 4y ago
The different formal varieties of geographical indications and restricted names are commonly adopted for cheese, wine, and many other quality foods. It only takes a critical mass of motivated makers and a reasonable traditional product, not "clout in European politics"; Parmigiano-Reggiano is merely popular, easy to imitate, and therefore in need of protection.
InCityDreams 4y ago
Imagine a kansas farm producing texan beef. Then a nebraskan farm joining in. What's to stop ottowa from taking a slice of the pie?

bradknowles 4y ago

I learned a lot about Parmegiano Reggiano when I was working at Whole Foods. I was told they crack more wheels than any other grocery chain in the world, and that each wheel cost like $1800.00 (well, it did pre-COVID). IIRC, on average, they crack one wheel per store per day. You can also sign up for classes where you watch them crack a wheel and then do a sample of various cheese flavors. It is interesting to find out more about the production side of these wheels. Thank you!