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What do you mean when referring to userscript extensions and dynamic code? The latter I think refers to being able to execute code that is fetched at runtime?

by Vinnl 4y ago

What do you mean when referring to userscript extensions and dynamic code? The latter I think refers to being able to execute code that is fetched at runtime? That certainly makes things a lot easier for developers, but I don't quite see what limits that imposes for users?

rektide 4y ago
There's a range of different ways to author & uses for dynamic code. In terms of use cases, downloaded on the fly code is definitely one example. Userscript engines like Greasemonkey, VioletMonkey, & TamperMonkey are all alao on the chopping block, which also allow user-edited code as well as downloaded code. There's also a huge range of uses for dynamic code in general. Data stores & engines will optimize performance by using the Function constructor[1]. Cant do that anymore: basic, sensible, multi-decade long optimizations are now off the table. Being able to use eval() to dynamically generate a complex expression- no longer allowed. It's bitterly ironic that Apple's prohibition against interpretters (a type of dynamic code) has held their platform back from allowing interesting things to run on iOS. Chrome's real rendering & js engines are blocked there. Because Apple says it's too unsafe to trust programs to do anything not statically defined, that only code that can all be fully read & understand is ok. Now here's Google & then Mozilla, bringing the exact same prohibitions against dynamic code to the web. At it's deepest heart. It's so ugly, so hypocritical, & so menacing & massive a threat to possibility, to extensions that can grow & develop. Long hope, but a deep one: I very much hope one day (far away) a semantic-web like world wide web might emerge, but if this sick knee-capping happens the browser will never be a viable place for user agency- which must be a dynamic & growable organic thingh never be tenable as a place where user agency can grow & flourish. Extensions are amazing, but if they're restricted to single-purpose little timmicks, unflexible static predefined capabilities, Google will have insured that the only thriving systems the world will get will be inside the data center. These restrictions mortally cripple user-agency, that which is most special & most dear about the web & what set it apart from conventional software applications. My open github issue[2] on this. [1] https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Reference/Global_Objects/Function https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/JavaScript/Refe... [2] https://github.com/w3c/webextensions/issues/139 https://github.com/w3c/webextensions/issues/139
- user3939382 4y ago
  The basic problem is that the average non-technical user lacks the knowledge that these policies exist, much less their deleterious effects. This is the problem with some of the valid points RMS has been raising for decades. Look at dragnet surveillance- ask the average person who Snowden is. Unfortunately I don't see that changing, especially since you can see the same dynamic in (nearly?) every other industry. The industry engages in widespread practices, sometimes legitimized by corrupt laws via regulatory capture, that harm our society and everyone is too busy trying to put food on the table to notice.
  - BuckRogers 4y ago
    - user3939382 4y ago
      That’s very idealistic that you think “justice” is what the US has in mind for him. If you haven’t noticed from the Assange case, the US fed gov’t rewrites the laws and creates its own definition of justice to try its best to murder anyone who exposes its crimes. If the US was interested in “justice” for Snowden it would have awarded him a Congressional medal of honor instead of hunting and trying to prosecute him.
      - BuckRogers 4y ago
        The truth would prevail. Isn’t that what the weasel was fighting for? Navalny faced your “justice”, because he’s a true and actual hero of his nation. I can assure you, any true patriot would walk down Navalny’s path. Not Edward Snowden‘s path of treason and cowardice. I have no love for Benedict Arnolds.
        user3939382 4y ago
        The truth already came out the day his material was released. He’s been isolated from his country, culture, family, everything he knows and loves and has to fear every day will be the day the US figures out a way to kill him or bargain with Russia to hand him over to death/lifetime imprisonment via a kangaroo court. He hasn’t sacrificed enough? He’s one of the few patriots. The traitors are the ones working for and especially managing these unconstitutional illegal programs that continue to this day.

BuckRogers 4y ago
You missed the point. I'm not qualifying the information released, I'm qualifying his treason. I'm not commenting on the constitutionality of mass surveillance. He went about it the wrong way, then ran like a coward and hid like chicken little. Of course Snowden isn't going to admit he handed over intel to the Russians or Chinese, but it's most likely he did. Hence he's safe from justice today, right. Believe more in your hero though. I like my heroes to have an ounce of manhood and bravery like Russia's Navalny. Edward wouldn't have 1/1000th the struggle that man has faced. We could poison him, give him cancer, anything. He's not safe. He's just blessed to have been a traitor of America, rather than a totalitarian society like the one he resides in now. And yes, I do consider the ACLU more qualified to handle any potential US gov't abuses of Snowden. There won't be any. He's just a traitor and a coward in hiding. Hiding behind the same cheap rhetoric here about "unfairness". Yet he trusts the Russian system. You can't make this stuff up. But here you are.
- user3939382 4y ago
  > He went about it the wrong way If you wouldn't mind, please explain the right way. He went to his superiors first, was told to shut up and go back to work. Even when he released the black and white evidence, James Clapper stood in front of Congress and lied about the programs under oath. > ran like a coward and hid Not before, but after you're in his shoes, where you have US intelligence trying to figure out how to rendition you to a CIA blacksite and have you unpersoned and murdered, you can judge his wish to stay alive. If he was a coward, he would have ignored the crimes the government was paying him to participate in like all the other people he worked with at the NSA. > it's most likely he did I'd argue the opposite. If his goal was to ferret intelligence to foreign countries he wouldn't have released anything to the press, the two actions are completely at odds. > I like my heroes to have an ounce of manhood and bravery He risked his life, and gave up everything he had, to expose these crimes to try and help his countrymen. That's enough manhood and bravery for me. > I do consider the ACLU more qualified to handle any potential US gov't abuses of Snowden The government is abusing Snowden without help from the ACLU right this moment by seeking his prosecution. You seem to have a very mistaken impression of the power of the ACLU. > He's just a traitor He literally did nothing to justify that label. The only traitors in this story are the people working for the NSA participating in these crimes against the American people. > Yet he trusts the Russian system. You can't make this stuff up. But here you are. You have strong opinions yet are uninformed. Snowden is in Russia because that's where he was during a flight layover at the moment the US State Department canceled his passport making it impossible for him to leave the country. If you're so angry he's in Russia (why would you care?) you can thank the US State Department.
  - BuckRogers 4y ago
    The ACLU point was that they would watch for any injustice with a more astute mind and eye than you or anyone else here has. I don't think you have to worry about alerting HN about Edward's unfair treatment at the hands of the US government. I think there are coalitions of lawyers that will be releasing press statements if something were wrong. There won't be. It's all excuses to enable a criminal to continue his run on the lam. The right way is however you feel is best, without running from the consequences under the justice system. I already said it a few times here, look to real patriots. George Washington, William Wallace, Alexei Navalny. Some had worse ends than others, all stood their ground till the end in what they believed. All men whose spirit will burn in the hearts of men forever. I know Snowden's story. His passport doesn't bar him from returning home, and he's not helpless in Russia. He can leave, he chooses to stay. He either has or is still seeking a Russian passport which says it all. Forgoes American justice for Russian servitude. There's your personal hero. The boat sailed on that guy, your depiction of him sounds like someone years ago before he engaged in a full speed sprint from justice. He has exposed himself for what he is. Just accept that the story continued to evolve on him and people see it. And the good news: the US will treat him fairly, and won't assassinate him. We could, easily. He ran from the world's longest standing democracy. Bad news: he's a Russian. That government poisons you just for speaking in public. Most people there wouldn't dare speak their views outside of their kitchen table. Irony for your "freedom fighter" will be given they despise traitors so when he pushes the wrong button, they murder him.
    - user3939382 4y ago
      > watch for any injustice with a more astute mind What you seem to be missing is the fact that Snowden shouldn't be being prosecuted at all. He should be protected by the Whistleblower Protection Act. He shouldn't be "hiding" or "running" or whatever you'd like to call it because there shouldn't be anything to run or hide from. The second the evidence he presented was looked into the DOJ should have immediately dropped any charges against him, he should have been pardoned to protect him from any future prosecution, and he should have been awarded the medal of honor. You're starting from this flawed premise that he needs to "face the music for his crimes" which is just completely fallacious. I couldn't care less what country he's in, again not the point. The point is the US doubled down on its crimes by not only committing them but illegally trying to prosecute someone who exposed them. For whatever reason or axe you have to grind you refuse to recognize any of that.