4 ms·

From my personal experience, I disagree completely with the advice that "non-youngsters" switching careers to software development should aim for "non-fashionab

by soneca 4y ago

From my personal experience, I disagree completely with the advice that "non-youngsters" switching careers to software development should aim for "non-fashionable" tech. I started to learn software development at 37 years old (shoutout to freeCodeCamp.org!). That was in 2017. I went the frontend route, so I naturally started with html, css, and javascript. Then, since React was already the most popular framework then, I started to learn it and build projects solely on React. I skipped Jquery, pre-ES5 javascript, and things like that. I focused on what was fashionable. It turned out great for me! I am a very happy and successful (in financial terms compared to what I earned early or expected to earn these days) web developer. Funny enough, my first job was using Ember. But six months in, the company decided to migrate to React, since it was getting harder and harder to hire people that wanted to work with Ember. Then a couple of React jobs. And now I started a job using Vue. So still learning fashionable things. Btw, I never noticed ageism against me. I worked on a big Brazilian startup and then on three small American startups. Of course, plenty of the jobs that I applied for and didn't get could be because of ageism, I'll never know, but I consider myself to be successful in getting jobs, so at least I think it is not something that affected the general outcome of my career.

armitron 4y ago
Startups are not typically picky about hiring, in fact they have a major financial incentive to be anti-ageist. The problem is.. when the market tanks and startups go bust, it doesn't look so rosy anymore. Which is why the most coveted positions in this field are in a few corporations that pay top dollar. Getting hired there is a different story in terms of barrier to entry and competition you will face including ageism which is unfortunately very much present. So for someone non-young who looks at his future 10-20 years and tries to calculate risk, startups should not be taken into account. If one can't get a job at the top corps, one shouldn't enter the field. The risk is just too much.
- tragictrash 4y ago
  First off, I wouldn't work for "one of the top corps", being FAANG companies. The work life balance is terrible. Find a company that does it's own business and wants to hire their own developers. How do you expect to get into the field, not just graduating college with a CS degree? Your advice is like a self fulfilling prophecy. Go work at a startup. You'll learn tons. Sure, job security won't be as good as an established company, but the barrier to entry isn't either.
  - QuercusMax 4y ago
    Your mileage can certainly vary with work-life-balance in FAANGs - I've been at Alphabet for almost 7 years and I've had great WLB. It's something you have to do deliberately, though; especially with distributed teams, there's always going to be emails coming in, chats to read, documents and CLs to review, etc. If you're someone who tends towards workaholism you may need to set some boundaries in your life. I'm not saying this is universally true at Alphabet, as there are definitely groups that don't do a good job of this, but it's very doable.
  - armitron 4y ago
    That may still work when someone is in his 20s. For someone in mid-30s/early 40s, it's too much of a gamble, especially if one has a family to support. One starting from zero doesn't gain deep expertise in anything in a startup in the span of a few years. As long as the market is breaking one record after another and money is raining from the skies, this is not a problem. But it's an illusion and like all illusions, eventually will collapse. And when it does, you're at the bottom of the totem pole and as expendable as one can be. And this doesn't even take into account technological progress that is rapidly obsoleting many of these low-barrier-to-entry jobs.
- bin_bash 4y ago
  So there is FAANG and there are startups? I think you left out a few companies.
- scarface74 4y ago
  You don’t manage risk in your career by worrying about the company. You manage risk by making sure you have a marketable skillset, an updated resume, an updated “career document”, and having savings. If you count on your company to never lay you off, you end up like old IBMers who got complacent, found they didn’t have a marketable skillset and when they got laid off and couldn’t find a job, they complained about “ageism”. I’m 48 for what it is worth.
  - triyambakam 4y ago
    Very useful advice, something I wish I would have kept in mind sooner!
- soneca 4y ago
  > ” If one can't get a job at the top corps, one shouldn't enter the field. The risk is just too much” What?? I think I never read anything in HN that I disagree more with. I got fired December 1st last year because the company I worked was heading to an IPO and decided that they didn’t want to work with full time contractors from outside the USA anymore. I got paid the whole December month. I started in a new job in January 18th. Being a good frontend developer is what minimizes the risk of my career, not working on companies that will exist in 20 years. I doubt a lot that I will be working in the same company that I am now in 10 years.
5350-uiop-1130 4y ago
I'm a front end developer for 15 years, same age as you. I'm looking to leave the industry, so I kind of agree with the author. It's a matter of perspective I guess. I just feel this field has become incredibly over saturated and it's now a race to the bottom.
- scsilver 4y ago
  Which field hasn’t in your opinion?
  - ChuckNorris89 4y ago
    Medicine. There's never gonna be a short supply of old and sick people needing care. Doctors enjoy a job stability second to none.
    - bumby 4y ago
      Isn't the trend in the industry to rely more heavily on nurse practitioners and physician assistants instead of MDs as primary care providers? I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but from one perspective it seems to put downward pressure on the salary of primary care providers.
    - passingmagic 4y ago
      The "shortage" of medical professionals - esp. doctors - I believe is a manufactured one. The medical associations and societies that control approvals operate in a manner similar to OPEC. They keep supply down to keep prices high. This is almost a scam, given the lengthy wait times for doc appointments in many urban areas.
    - bumby 4y ago
      According to Dept. of Labor ONET data, doctors are expected to have slower than average job growth.[1][2][3][4] In some areas of healthcare employment, growth will be higher than average [5][6], but doctors don't seem to be one of them. [1]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1215.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1215.00 [2]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1229.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1229.00 [3]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1224.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1224.00 [4]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1213.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1213.00 [5]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1071.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1071.00 [6]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1171.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1171.00
jasfi 4y ago
How do you prepare for interviews?

by soneca 4y ago

armitron 4y ago

Startups are not typically picky about hiring, in fact they have a major financial incentive to be anti-ageist. The problem is.. when the market tanks and startups go bust, it doesn't look so rosy anymore. Which is why the most coveted positions in this field are in a few corporations that pay top dollar. Getting hired there is a different story in terms of barrier to entry and competition you will face including ageism which is unfortunately very much present. So for someone non-young who looks at his future 10-20 years and tries to calculate risk, startups should not be taken into account. If one can't get a job at the top corps, one shouldn't enter the field. The risk is just too much.

tragictrash 4y ago
First off, I wouldn't work for "one of the top corps", being FAANG companies. The work life balance is terrible. Find a company that does it's own business and wants to hire their own developers. How do you expect to get into the field, not just graduating college with a CS degree? Your advice is like a self fulfilling prophecy. Go work at a startup. You'll learn tons. Sure, job security won't be as good as an established company, but the barrier to entry isn't either.
- QuercusMax 4y ago
  Your mileage can certainly vary with work-life-balance in FAANGs - I've been at Alphabet for almost 7 years and I've had great WLB. It's something you have to do deliberately, though; especially with distributed teams, there's always going to be emails coming in, chats to read, documents and CLs to review, etc. If you're someone who tends towards workaholism you may need to set some boundaries in your life. I'm not saying this is universally true at Alphabet, as there are definitely groups that don't do a good job of this, but it's very doable.
- armitron 4y ago
  That may still work when someone is in his 20s. For someone in mid-30s/early 40s, it's too much of a gamble, especially if one has a family to support. One starting from zero doesn't gain deep expertise in anything in a startup in the span of a few years. As long as the market is breaking one record after another and money is raining from the skies, this is not a problem. But it's an illusion and like all illusions, eventually will collapse. And when it does, you're at the bottom of the totem pole and as expendable as one can be. And this doesn't even take into account technological progress that is rapidly obsoleting many of these low-barrier-to-entry jobs.
bin_bash 4y ago
So there is FAANG and there are startups? I think you left out a few companies.
scarface74 4y ago
You don’t manage risk in your career by worrying about the company. You manage risk by making sure you have a marketable skillset, an updated resume, an updated “career document”, and having savings. If you count on your company to never lay you off, you end up like old IBMers who got complacent, found they didn’t have a marketable skillset and when they got laid off and couldn’t find a job, they complained about “ageism”. I’m 48 for what it is worth.
- triyambakam 4y ago
  Very useful advice, something I wish I would have kept in mind sooner!
soneca 4y ago
> ” If one can't get a job at the top corps, one shouldn't enter the field. The risk is just too much” What?? I think I never read anything in HN that I disagree more with. I got fired December 1st last year because the company I worked was heading to an IPO and decided that they didn’t want to work with full time contractors from outside the USA anymore. I got paid the whole December month. I started in a new job in January 18th. Being a good frontend developer is what minimizes the risk of my career, not working on companies that will exist in 20 years. I doubt a lot that I will be working in the same company that I am now in 10 years.

5350-uiop-1130 4y ago

I'm a front end developer for 15 years, same age as you. I'm looking to leave the industry, so I kind of agree with the author. It's a matter of perspective I guess. I just feel this field has become incredibly over saturated and it's now a race to the bottom.

scsilver 4y ago
Which field hasn’t in your opinion?
- ChuckNorris89 4y ago
  Medicine. There's never gonna be a short supply of old and sick people needing care. Doctors enjoy a job stability second to none.
  - bumby 4y ago
    Isn't the trend in the industry to rely more heavily on nurse practitioners and physician assistants instead of MDs as primary care providers? I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, but from one perspective it seems to put downward pressure on the salary of primary care providers.
  - passingmagic 4y ago
    The "shortage" of medical professionals - esp. doctors - I believe is a manufactured one. The medical associations and societies that control approvals operate in a manner similar to OPEC. They keep supply down to keep prices high. This is almost a scam, given the lengthy wait times for doc appointments in many urban areas.
  - bumby 4y ago
    According to Dept. of Labor ONET data, doctors are expected to have slower than average job growth.[1][2][3][4] In some areas of healthcare employment, growth will be higher than average [5][6], but doctors don't seem to be one of them. [1]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1215.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1215.00 [2]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1229.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1229.00 [3]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1224.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1224.00 [4]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1213.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1213.00 [5]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1071.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1071.00 [6]https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1171.00 https://www.onetonline.org/link/summary/29-1171.00

jasfi 4y ago

How do you prepare for interviews?