4 ms·

The Decade of Cheap Rides Is Over

39 points by jgwil2 4y ago

908B64B197 4y ago
> One well-known consequence of the rider subsidy is the decline in public transit. One study estimates the arrival of Uber and Lyft in a city decreases rail ridership by 1.29 percent and bus ridership by 1.7 percent each year. In San Francisco, where Uber was founded, the authors estimate Uber has decreased bus ridership by 12.7 percent. There's something the author is ignoring here: public safety. In the Bay Area it's apparently a policy not to report crimes anymore [0]. Maybe decreasing ridership numbers has something to do with it. [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/bart-withholding-surveillance-videos-of-crime-to-avoid-stereotypes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/bart-withholding-s...
- kar5pt 4y ago
  This article is about withholding crime footage from the news media, not withholding it from the police. In fact one of the justifications given by BART is that "juvenile police records are protected", implying that it was reported to the police. Stop spreading misinformation.
FooBarBizBazz 4y ago
This is bad news. It makes car ownership more necessary in most parts of the US, at a time when cars are expensive. It eliminates a "default fallback job", exactly when inflation and recession make it more important. For those who can't drive (whether for reasons of money or immigration status or something else), it makes it all the more important to be in one of the few places with decent transport. Those are expensive places. In exchange, maybe bus ridership will go up 12% in San Francisco and New York. That's a bad trade. Yeah, I prefer urbanism too, but, on net, Uber was good for probably everybody but the investors. Hell, if the government ran it at cost, it'd probably add overall to the economy through positive externalities. Utopia involves nice little walkable towns and bicycles and such, but I don't see how you get to there from here, in the US, without blowing everything up first -- some unimaginable catastrophe, like the Yellowstone caldera going boom, or a decades-long strategic bombing campaign by the Empire of Japan. There's just no way to fix it. It is what it is. Uber makes the best of it.
- nunez 4y ago
  If the government ran Uber, it would be...public transportation, which everyone complains about whenever prices hike, just like people are with Uber. I think the way forward is autonomous, affordable electric cars and designing our streets to be more accommodating to them.
- kar5pt 4y ago
  Most Uber rides I've taken are around $20+ each way. Anyone relying on that as their main method of transportation can afford a car payment.
- hakfoo 4y ago
  The way to fix public transport is to make rich people want it. I think the selling point might be heavier commuter rail, something like the network in Chicago. Make it a bit more luxurious feeling and give it a modern image, but the speed is probably not the issue. Sell the dream of living by a walkable suburb an hour out of downtown. You can get on the train at 7:45AM, unfold your laptop, and by the time you've arrived, you've already done all the first-of-the-day paperwork and are relaxed and ready for the actual productive day. Come 5PM, you can just unwind in the coach, rather than devote your remaining energy for the day to steering a two-tonne death machine. No worries about a breakdown blocking the freeway, a road-rage incident ruining your day, or being blocked by a snow-in.
  - prostoalex 4y ago
    With recent subway shooting in NYC and homeless attacks fairly commonplace in LA https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-11/metro-rail-passenger-ablaze-in-unprovoked-attack https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-11/metro-ra... I'd venture a lack of luxury is not what's keeping people away.
  - bluefirebrand 4y ago
    > The way to fix public transport is to make rich people want it How do you do that without making it inaccessible to poor people? > your laptop, and by the time you've arrived, you've already done all the first-of-the-day paperwork and are relaxed and ready for the actual productive day. This is a fairy tale though. Commuter rails are mass transit, people wind up crammed into standing room only, there's absolutely never room to relax or unwind or get work done on a laptop. I'm not sure how you could make your plan a reality without in making transit less available for poorer people.

39 points by jgwil2 4y ago

> One well-known consequence of the rider subsidy is the decline in public transit. One study estimates the arrival of Uber and Lyft in a city decreases rail ridership by 1.29 percent and bus ridership by 1.7 percent each year. In San Francisco, where Uber was founded, the authors estimate Uber has decreased bus ridership by 12.7 percent. There's something the author is ignoring here: public safety. In the Bay Area it's apparently a policy not to report crimes anymore [0]. Maybe decreasing ridership numbers has something to do with it. [0] https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/bart-withholding-surveillance-videos-of-crime-to-avoid-stereotypes/ https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/bart-withholding-s...

kar5pt 4y ago
This article is about withholding crime footage from the news media, not withholding it from the police. In fact one of the justifications given by BART is that "juvenile police records are protected", implying that it was reported to the police. Stop spreading misinformation.

FooBarBizBazz 4y ago

This is bad news. It makes car ownership more necessary in most parts of the US, at a time when cars are expensive. It eliminates a "default fallback job", exactly when inflation and recession make it more important. For those who can't drive (whether for reasons of money or immigration status or something else), it makes it all the more important to be in one of the few places with decent transport. Those are expensive places. In exchange, maybe bus ridership will go up 12% in San Francisco and New York. That's a bad trade. Yeah, I prefer urbanism too, but, on net, Uber was good for probably everybody but the investors. Hell, if the government ran it at cost, it'd probably add overall to the economy through positive externalities. Utopia involves nice little walkable towns and bicycles and such, but I don't see how you get to there from here, in the US, without blowing everything up first -- some unimaginable catastrophe, like the Yellowstone caldera going boom, or a decades-long strategic bombing campaign by the Empire of Japan. There's just no way to fix it. It is what it is. Uber makes the best of it.

nunez 4y ago
If the government ran Uber, it would be...public transportation, which everyone complains about whenever prices hike, just like people are with Uber. I think the way forward is autonomous, affordable electric cars and designing our streets to be more accommodating to them.
kar5pt 4y ago
Most Uber rides I've taken are around $20+ each way. Anyone relying on that as their main method of transportation can afford a car payment.
hakfoo 4y ago
The way to fix public transport is to make rich people want it. I think the selling point might be heavier commuter rail, something like the network in Chicago. Make it a bit more luxurious feeling and give it a modern image, but the speed is probably not the issue. Sell the dream of living by a walkable suburb an hour out of downtown. You can get on the train at 7:45AM, unfold your laptop, and by the time you've arrived, you've already done all the first-of-the-day paperwork and are relaxed and ready for the actual productive day. Come 5PM, you can just unwind in the coach, rather than devote your remaining energy for the day to steering a two-tonne death machine. No worries about a breakdown blocking the freeway, a road-rage incident ruining your day, or being blocked by a snow-in.
- prostoalex 4y ago
  With recent subway shooting in NYC and homeless attacks fairly commonplace in LA https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-11/metro-rail-passenger-ablaze-in-unprovoked-attack https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-05-11/metro-ra... I'd venture a lack of luxury is not what's keeping people away.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  > The way to fix public transport is to make rich people want it How do you do that without making it inaccessible to poor people? > your laptop, and by the time you've arrived, you've already done all the first-of-the-day paperwork and are relaxed and ready for the actual productive day. This is a fairy tale though. Commuter rails are mass transit, people wind up crammed into standing room only, there's absolutely never room to relax or unwind or get work done on a laptop. I'm not sure how you could make your plan a reality without in making transit less available for poorer people.