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My point is not about bitcoin mining. It's about the slippery slope of deciding that X is good and Y is bad. Everyone has a blast until something you want to do

My point is not about bitcoin mining. It's about the slippery slope of deciding that X is good and Y is bad. Everyone has a blast until something you want to do gets banned.

withinboredom 4y ago
It isn’t about “good” or “bad” but more about “fair use.” I think the right answer here is “if you want to mine, you need to use x% of alternative energy” so that energy will go somewhere more useful.
- mirceal 4y ago
  Why? Why is it about fair use? And more importantly: who gets to decide what fair use is?
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    If you walk into my house with a phone charger. Sure go at it. If you walk in with a toaster, oven, and a microwave, maybe you should pay part of the power bill? If an industry is using a large part of a finite resource, that doesn’t really advance humanity all that much, perhaps it shouldn’t get so much of that finite resource. Where that cutoff is, is anyone’s guess, but it should be an option. I’d say the same of any industry using a finite resource. Could there be worse offenders than mining? Certainly, but afaik, they are furthering human-kind. An imaginary currency that can’t be realistically spent like a currency and isn’t even running at planet-wide-scale (aka, 100% of every monetary transaction) yet but using a disproportionate amount of energy … yeah, that should be regulated.
    - mirceal 4y ago
      Ngl, lots of nuggets here. First, the argument about charger, oven, etc does not apply. If it's your house and you pay the bills you get yo decide then rules. Same goes for every home owner. > industry is using a large part of a finite resource All resources are finite. We are using large part of oil for example for just driving around. You don't get to decide how the resources are used > that doesn’t really advance humanity all that much That's some pretentious BS and the high horse appears again. Why do you think you get to decide this without a massive restructuring of how ALL resources are managed? What makes you think you have this right? > An imaginary currency I have shocking news for you. All currencies are imaginary. They're made up. They're something people made up. Also, most money are electronic. Did you ever do the math to see how much energy the financial sector is consuming? > isn’t even running at planet-wide-scale (aka, 100% of every monetary transaction) yet It doesn't have to. I can make up my own currency and use copious amounts of energy to mine it. As long as I pay the bill who are you to tell me I cannot invent my own money? > regulated Oh yeah. The answer to everything. Regulation! Setting aside the technicalities how would you prevent me from consuming electricity and paying for it?
      - withinboredom 4y ago
        > If it's your house and you pay the bills you get yo decide then rules. Same goes for every home owner. I think I can answer this pretty simply. The house is the world, and the home owners are everyone who lives in it. We vote people to make hard decisions so we can go about making our imaginary currencies or drive around or whatever. So, no, I (personally) don't get to make these kinds of decisions. But I could, theoretically, run for office to get to do so. That reality isn't a real reality for me (personally) because I can't vote or run for office where I currently live because I'm just a resident and not a citizen. However, I can still run for office and vote in my country of citizenship. But anyway, > As long as I pay the bill who are you to tell me I cannot invent my own money? Just because you pay the bills, it doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. You can't print USD or EUR in your back yard just because you bought the machinery and pay the power bill. You can't just light a bonfire in an urban backyard because you bought the wood, or build an extension to your house. There are codes, regulations, laws, etc. These make up a civilization and society. So yes, there are people on this planet who can tell you "cannot invent your own money with your electricity." I, personally, am not one of them. I don't understand why I (personally) am a part of this conversation. But here we are...
        mirceal 4y ago
        > The house is the world, and the home owners are everyone who lives in it. Hahahaha. Have you ever been part of a homeowners association? It's a clusterfuck. People constantly on power trips for the most miniscule and ridiculous things. I would not be surprised if somewhere somebody is trying to ban their neighbor from mining crypto in their garage > But I could, theoretically, run for office to get to do so I mean... go ahead. This is how it's supposed to work. Do try and formalize this and make sure this is what people want. > Just because you pay the bills, it doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. That's exactly what it means. If my activities are aligned with the laws of place my house is in I can do whatever the fuck I want. > You can't print USD or EUR in your back yard just because you bought the machinery and pay the power bill. The US government want a word with you. You'll be shocked to hear that most money created is created out of thin air with no backing whatsoever. Also, this may come as a shock but I can definitely print money in my back yard as long as I don't try to pass them as real money or trick people into exchanging things for the said money. Printing stuff is rad. > I don't understand why I (personally) am a part of this conversation. But here we are... The positive spin: you are having this conversation because you've encountered someone you don't agree with and both people are open to learning/teaching something. It's a rare sighting in today's world to have people that don't agree have a somewhat civil back and forth and share their point of view The negative spin: you are having this conversation because you want to be right.
zaptheimpaler 4y ago
Realistically, people do decide what's good and what's bad all the time. Individual decisions usually aren't given much weight, but when a majority of people decide one way that should translate to action. The ban on smoking in public places is one example. Crypto has been around for a decade+ now and most people have not seen any value from it. But we will all be affected by energy shortages and higher emissions.
- mirceal 4y ago
  That's cool. Smoking is still around though and you can do it all day in your home using your resources. I don't mind people/regulators thinking/doing something if there is a though process and procedure that is established vs the pitchfork approach.
  - zaptheimpaler 4y ago
    I'm not sure how you think process and procedure and laws are established in the first place, but its frequently via the public raising pitchforks.

My point is not about bitcoin mining. It's about the slippery slope of deciding that X is good and Y is bad. Everyone has a blast until something you want to do gets banned.

withinboredom 4y ago

It isn’t about “good” or “bad” but more about “fair use.” I think the right answer here is “if you want to mine, you need to use x% of alternative energy” so that energy will go somewhere more useful.

mirceal 4y ago
Why? Why is it about fair use? And more importantly: who gets to decide what fair use is?
- withinboredom 4y ago
  If you walk into my house with a phone charger. Sure go at it. If you walk in with a toaster, oven, and a microwave, maybe you should pay part of the power bill? If an industry is using a large part of a finite resource, that doesn’t really advance humanity all that much, perhaps it shouldn’t get so much of that finite resource. Where that cutoff is, is anyone’s guess, but it should be an option. I’d say the same of any industry using a finite resource. Could there be worse offenders than mining? Certainly, but afaik, they are furthering human-kind. An imaginary currency that can’t be realistically spent like a currency and isn’t even running at planet-wide-scale (aka, 100% of every monetary transaction) yet but using a disproportionate amount of energy … yeah, that should be regulated.
  - mirceal 4y ago
    Ngl, lots of nuggets here. First, the argument about charger, oven, etc does not apply. If it's your house and you pay the bills you get yo decide then rules. Same goes for every home owner. > industry is using a large part of a finite resource All resources are finite. We are using large part of oil for example for just driving around. You don't get to decide how the resources are used > that doesn’t really advance humanity all that much That's some pretentious BS and the high horse appears again. Why do you think you get to decide this without a massive restructuring of how ALL resources are managed? What makes you think you have this right? > An imaginary currency I have shocking news for you. All currencies are imaginary. They're made up. They're something people made up. Also, most money are electronic. Did you ever do the math to see how much energy the financial sector is consuming? > isn’t even running at planet-wide-scale (aka, 100% of every monetary transaction) yet It doesn't have to. I can make up my own currency and use copious amounts of energy to mine it. As long as I pay the bill who are you to tell me I cannot invent my own money? > regulated Oh yeah. The answer to everything. Regulation! Setting aside the technicalities how would you prevent me from consuming electricity and paying for it?
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      > If it's your house and you pay the bills you get yo decide then rules. Same goes for every home owner. I think I can answer this pretty simply. The house is the world, and the home owners are everyone who lives in it. We vote people to make hard decisions so we can go about making our imaginary currencies or drive around or whatever. So, no, I (personally) don't get to make these kinds of decisions. But I could, theoretically, run for office to get to do so. That reality isn't a real reality for me (personally) because I can't vote or run for office where I currently live because I'm just a resident and not a citizen. However, I can still run for office and vote in my country of citizenship. But anyway, > As long as I pay the bill who are you to tell me I cannot invent my own money? Just because you pay the bills, it doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. You can't print USD or EUR in your back yard just because you bought the machinery and pay the power bill. You can't just light a bonfire in an urban backyard because you bought the wood, or build an extension to your house. There are codes, regulations, laws, etc. These make up a civilization and society. So yes, there are people on this planet who can tell you "cannot invent your own money with your electricity." I, personally, am not one of them. I don't understand why I (personally) am a part of this conversation. But here we are...
      - mirceal 4y ago
        > The house is the world, and the home owners are everyone who lives in it. Hahahaha. Have you ever been part of a homeowners association? It's a clusterfuck. People constantly on power trips for the most miniscule and ridiculous things. I would not be surprised if somewhere somebody is trying to ban their neighbor from mining crypto in their garage > But I could, theoretically, run for office to get to do so I mean... go ahead. This is how it's supposed to work. Do try and formalize this and make sure this is what people want. > Just because you pay the bills, it doesn't give you the right to do whatever you want. That's exactly what it means. If my activities are aligned with the laws of place my house is in I can do whatever the fuck I want. > You can't print USD or EUR in your back yard just because you bought the machinery and pay the power bill. The US government want a word with you. You'll be shocked to hear that most money created is created out of thin air with no backing whatsoever. Also, this may come as a shock but I can definitely print money in my back yard as long as I don't try to pass them as real money or trick people into exchanging things for the said money. Printing stuff is rad. > I don't understand why I (personally) am a part of this conversation. But here we are... The positive spin: you are having this conversation because you've encountered someone you don't agree with and both people are open to learning/teaching something. It's a rare sighting in today's world to have people that don't agree have a somewhat civil back and forth and share their point of view The negative spin: you are having this conversation because you want to be right.

zaptheimpaler 4y ago

Realistically, people do decide what's good and what's bad all the time. Individual decisions usually aren't given much weight, but when a majority of people decide one way that should translate to action. The ban on smoking in public places is one example. Crypto has been around for a decade+ now and most people have not seen any value from it. But we will all be affected by energy shortages and higher emissions.

mirceal 4y ago
That's cool. Smoking is still around though and you can do it all day in your home using your resources. I don't mind people/regulators thinking/doing something if there is a though process and procedure that is established vs the pitchfork approach.
- zaptheimpaler 4y ago
  I'm not sure how you think process and procedure and laws are established in the first place, but its frequently via the public raising pitchforks.