7 ms·

Anybody know of any Kubernetes replacements in development? I would be happy to work on such a project.

mdaniel 4y ago
I believe Nomad is hailed as the replacement: https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad#readme https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad#readme I would caution one against "javascript framework syndrome:" bah, this framework is too complicated, I just want something simpler ... ok, it doesn't work right in all circumstances, I'll just add this one feature(, ... ok, maybe just this one other feature)+ ... bah, this framework is too complicated!
- 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
  I like Nomad, but it's just a scheduler. There's a happier balance to be found with a complete distributed system that is loosely coupled, simple, and uses modern syseng best practices. I started writing something in Bash (https://github.com/peterwwillis/shell-distributed-system/blob/main/DESIGN.md https://github.com/peterwwillis/shell-distributed-system/blo...) just to show people it doesn't have to be complicated, but I got bored.
  - klysm 4y ago
    > complete distributed system that is loosely coupled, simple, and uses modern syseng best practices > in Bash Yeah I wouldn’t touch that with a 10ft pole. No way you are going to do something complex without introducing hideous errors because bash is a horrible language for doing anything complicated.
    - 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
      Using a complex programming language makes it easier to do complex things. But what if you don't want to do something complex? Turns out that simple things become complex with a complex programming language. The best way to get to a simple solution is to use simple tools in a simple way. I probably made the mistake of making it too complicated already. I'll go back at some point and strip most of it out.
  - mdaniel 4y ago
    heh, when I read that I thought of this monstrosity: https://github.com/simplenetes-io/simplenetes#readme https://github.com/simplenetes-io/simplenetes#readme (previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26661223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26661223)
- withinboredom 4y ago
  I could never figure out how to deploy nomad in a production environment. Between Consul, Vault, and all that, it seemed way more complex than kubernetes.
  - klysm 4y ago
    I don’t understand how you can possible say something like “more complex than” here. There are so many axes and trade off spaces at play. In some ways it’s simpler, in some ways it’s more complex. Nomad is easier in a lot of ways because it solves a subset of the problems. You can use it independently of consul and vault but that induces many costs.
    - withinboredom 4y ago
      I mean, installing kubernetes on a baremetal cluster took me 10 minutes to run a script that I wrote over ~2 weeks. I spent two months trying to figure out consul, nomad, and vault, how they work together, dealing with their weird failure modes, etc. Basically, RAFT sucks. It really isn't very resilient AT ALL. You can literally take down an entire RAFT cluster with a single packet. One freakin packet. At least Kubernetes will continue to run in a degraded state if etcd goes on the fritz.
      - klysm 4y ago
        > together, dealing with their weird failure modes, etc. Basically, RAFT sucks. It really isn't very resilient AT ALL. You can literally take down an entire RAFT cluster with a single packet. One freakin packet. etcd (the core of k8s) uses raft as its consensus algorithm. I’m not even sure what you are conflating, or what this magical single packet you are referring to is. Kubernetes will very much not continue to work if etcd goes down which is why people tend to host it outside of k8s itself for production use cases.
        withinboredom 4y ago
        Consul, Nomad, and Vault all use RAFT to function /at all/ so it’s really easy to break. Kubernetes will continue to run in a degraded state if etcd loses quorum. Your services will still be reachable.
number6 4y ago
Depending on use case: podman
- pm90 4y ago
  podman doesn’t replace k8s. It replaces docker daemon.
  - number6 4y ago
    True. It's more like a step before k8s. Same pod concept but no HA. More like docker-compose or swarm
    - pm90 4y ago
      podman isn't like docker compose either. It offers no way to orchestrate multiple containers using templates like docker compose. It is simply a daemonless “container engine”.
      - number6 4y ago
        In fact it uses Kubernetes YAML for this. It can use docker-compose if you symlink the podman socket to the docker socket (that's what docker-compose expects where the container socket is); you can use podman-compose too.

I believe Nomad is hailed as the replacement: https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad#readme https://github.com/hashicorp/nomad#readme I would caution one against "javascript framework syndrome:" bah, this framework is too complicated, I just want something simpler ... ok, it doesn't work right in all circumstances, I'll just add this one feature(, ... ok, maybe just this one other feature)+ ... bah, this framework is too complicated!

0xbadcafebee 4y ago
I like Nomad, but it's just a scheduler. There's a happier balance to be found with a complete distributed system that is loosely coupled, simple, and uses modern syseng best practices. I started writing something in Bash (https://github.com/peterwwillis/shell-distributed-system/blob/main/DESIGN.md https://github.com/peterwwillis/shell-distributed-system/blo...) just to show people it doesn't have to be complicated, but I got bored.
- klysm 4y ago
  > complete distributed system that is loosely coupled, simple, and uses modern syseng best practices > in Bash Yeah I wouldn’t touch that with a 10ft pole. No way you are going to do something complex without introducing hideous errors because bash is a horrible language for doing anything complicated.
  - 0xbadcafebee 4y ago
    Using a complex programming language makes it easier to do complex things. But what if you don't want to do something complex? Turns out that simple things become complex with a complex programming language. The best way to get to a simple solution is to use simple tools in a simple way. I probably made the mistake of making it too complicated already. I'll go back at some point and strip most of it out.
- mdaniel 4y ago
  heh, when I read that I thought of this monstrosity: https://github.com/simplenetes-io/simplenetes#readme https://github.com/simplenetes-io/simplenetes#readme (previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26661223 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26661223)
withinboredom 4y ago
I could never figure out how to deploy nomad in a production environment. Between Consul, Vault, and all that, it seemed way more complex than kubernetes.
- klysm 4y ago
  I don’t understand how you can possible say something like “more complex than” here. There are so many axes and trade off spaces at play. In some ways it’s simpler, in some ways it’s more complex. Nomad is easier in a lot of ways because it solves a subset of the problems. You can use it independently of consul and vault but that induces many costs.
  - withinboredom 4y ago
    I mean, installing kubernetes on a baremetal cluster took me 10 minutes to run a script that I wrote over ~2 weeks. I spent two months trying to figure out consul, nomad, and vault, how they work together, dealing with their weird failure modes, etc. Basically, RAFT sucks. It really isn't very resilient AT ALL. You can literally take down an entire RAFT cluster with a single packet. One freakin packet. At least Kubernetes will continue to run in a degraded state if etcd goes on the fritz.
    - klysm 4y ago
      > together, dealing with their weird failure modes, etc. Basically, RAFT sucks. It really isn't very resilient AT ALL. You can literally take down an entire RAFT cluster with a single packet. One freakin packet. etcd (the core of k8s) uses raft as its consensus algorithm. I’m not even sure what you are conflating, or what this magical single packet you are referring to is. Kubernetes will very much not continue to work if etcd goes down which is why people tend to host it outside of k8s itself for production use cases.
      - withinboredom 4y ago
        Consul, Nomad, and Vault all use RAFT to function /at all/ so it’s really easy to break. Kubernetes will continue to run in a degraded state if etcd loses quorum. Your services will still be reachable.

number6 4y ago

Depending on use case: podman

pm90 4y ago
podman doesn’t replace k8s. It replaces docker daemon.
- number6 4y ago
  True. It's more like a step before k8s. Same pod concept but no HA. More like docker-compose or swarm
  - pm90 4y ago
    podman isn't like docker compose either. It offers no way to orchestrate multiple containers using templates like docker compose. It is simply a daemonless “container engine”.
    - number6 4y ago
      In fact it uses Kubernetes YAML for this. It can use docker-compose if you symlink the podman socket to the docker socket (that's what docker-compose expects where the container socket is); you can use podman-compose too.