6 ms·

Obesity's relationship with type 2 diabetes is weird

18 points by klevertree 4y ago

elsherbini 4y ago
I enjoyed this article. This part felt weird though when you go on to explain the pitfalls of correlation chains: > Now, obesity causes diabetes. That much is indisputable. The odds-ratios you quote still just means obesity is correlated with diabetes. They could both be caused by the same thing, for instance an inflammatory diet. Or diabetes could cause obesity (temporally this doesn't seem to make sense, obese people go on to develop type-2 diabetes. But there could be a pre-diabetic state that we don't currently understand/measure which, when entered, leads to obesity.)
- EddieDante 4y ago
  > But there could be a pre-diabetic state that we don't currently understand/measure which, when entered, leads to obesity. "pre-diabetes" is a condition where insulin resistance is present but blood glucose levels don't meet the threshold for a type II diabetes diagnosis.
  - elsherbini 4y ago
    Yeah, what I really meant was "pre-prediabetes." Because temporally what's called prediabetes usually occurs after being overweight too. If there is a physiological switch that, once triggered, leads to diabetes and also causes obesity, then it would also explain the odds-ratio but it would not be obesity causing diabetes.
john567 4y ago
> And, despite our best efforts, we still don’t have a single good answer as to the cause of obesity’s rapid rise in prevalence. What compelled this person to write that sentence!? I know he's looking for a very technical answer but the answer to this question is simple and everybody knows it. They just ignore it.
- quantified 4y ago
  The single, good and accurate answer is… ?
  - EddieDante 4y ago
    Cheap sugar in every processed "food" product you buy at the supermarket, especially in the US.
    - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
      That’s one theory yes. But there are others involving plasticizers or other environmental contaminants. It could also be some sort of slow virus.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - john567 4y ago
        No. It is absolutely not a virus... Most of what you can buy in a grocerie store is bad for you. It has been optimized for profit, i.e. consumption. Then you can of course pile on all kinds of contributing factors but this isn't necessary to understand why people are fat. I don't blame fat people for being fat but it's not a mystery why they're fat. And it's not easy for them to change everything about their lifestyle to get fit but that's what they need to do.
    - francisofascii 4y ago
      That's is part of it, but not the single answer. Since cheap sugar has been around for a century at least. Epigenetics, lack of exercise, cultural changes, car dependence, also factor in.
      - john567 4y ago
        Everything went pretty much sideways around 1960s right about the time the processed food industry came to be. Hmm...

18 points by klevertree 4y ago

I enjoyed this article. This part felt weird though when you go on to explain the pitfalls of correlation chains: > Now, obesity causes diabetes. That much is indisputable. The odds-ratios you quote still just means obesity is correlated with diabetes. They could both be caused by the same thing, for instance an inflammatory diet. Or diabetes could cause obesity (temporally this doesn't seem to make sense, obese people go on to develop type-2 diabetes. But there could be a pre-diabetic state that we don't currently understand/measure which, when entered, leads to obesity.)

EddieDante 4y ago
> But there could be a pre-diabetic state that we don't currently understand/measure which, when entered, leads to obesity. "pre-diabetes" is a condition where insulin resistance is present but blood glucose levels don't meet the threshold for a type II diabetes diagnosis.
- elsherbini 4y ago
  Yeah, what I really meant was "pre-prediabetes." Because temporally what's called prediabetes usually occurs after being overweight too. If there is a physiological switch that, once triggered, leads to diabetes and also causes obesity, then it would also explain the odds-ratio but it would not be obesity causing diabetes.

john567 4y ago

> And, despite our best efforts, we still don’t have a single good answer as to the cause of obesity’s rapid rise in prevalence. What compelled this person to write that sentence!? I know he's looking for a very technical answer but the answer to this question is simple and everybody knows it. They just ignore it.

quantified 4y ago
The single, good and accurate answer is… ?
- EddieDante 4y ago
  Cheap sugar in every processed "food" product you buy at the supermarket, especially in the US.
  - amanaplanacanal 4y ago
    That’s one theory yes. But there are others involving plasticizers or other environmental contaminants. It could also be some sort of slow virus.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - john567 4y ago
      No. It is absolutely not a virus... Most of what you can buy in a grocerie store is bad for you. It has been optimized for profit, i.e. consumption. Then you can of course pile on all kinds of contributing factors but this isn't necessary to understand why people are fat. I don't blame fat people for being fat but it's not a mystery why they're fat. And it's not easy for them to change everything about their lifestyle to get fit but that's what they need to do.
  - francisofascii 4y ago
    That's is part of it, but not the single answer. Since cheap sugar has been around for a century at least. Epigenetics, lack of exercise, cultural changes, car dependence, also factor in.
    - john567 4y ago
      Everything went pretty much sideways around 1960s right about the time the processed food industry came to be. Hmm...