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I always see people saying these kind of thing about Amazon, but personally, I don't think this is the case. I think there is actual technical reason why Amazon

I always see people saying these kind of thing about Amazon, but personally, I don't think this is the case. I think there is actual technical reason why Amazon don't adapt EPUB natively (the Kindle Direct Publishing accept EPUB as input for ages). EPUB has a lot of features. A lot. I don't think anything (except maybe Adobe Digital Edition) support everything. I actually just realised yesterday that Moon Reader+, one of the best epub reader for Android, doesn't support vertical-rl layout (mostly used in Japanese book). Even Kobo doesn't use EPUB as-is. Its native format is KEPUB, which has tons of id-tagged <span> inside the content. Moreover, KEPUB and EPUB on Kobo use different renderer (EPUB use RMSDK, KEPUB use Kobo's own) with different supported features. Isn't this a mess? The new KFX format has one major advantage over EPUB. The images can be stored out-of-band. This allows you to start reading image-heavy book quickly, while images continue to load in the background. For fixed layout magazine/comic/manga where the entire file can be 100MB or more, this helps a lot.

Timshel 4y ago
Never had an issue with a EPUB on a kobo or a Nook reader, I clearly never tried any edge case. Not saying there might not be any issues with EPUB but the fact that in 10 years they can't be bothered to add at least a basic reader for me just mean they want to keep this incompatibility and keep people in this separated ecosystem with amazon/Kindle. I believe this choice is anything but a technical one. Since I never had much trouble using Calibre it means I'll probably never buy a Kindle just because of it but many people can't be hassled to do that.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  EPUB is like PDF. If you're going with just the very basic stuff: text, maybe a few images - it really doesn't matter what kind of bare-bones reader you use. BUT when you're opening a PDF that actually uses the features it's a different story. You've got a file with umpteen layers of information that needs to be displayed in a very specific way (I've seen blueprints do this for example). Most bare-bones PDF viewers either choke completely or display everything wrong.
  - Timshel 4y ago
    Not sure where you are going with this :), it seems you imply that a bare bone EPUB reader is way more useful than a PDF one. Which I completely believe, PDF support on readers is always an issue (there is even a discussion on it in this thread). Then it support the position that if they added support for PDF but not a basic EPUB then this choice was not made for technical reason.
- innocenat 4y ago
  There's two different question here. 1) Why Amazon keep re-inventing the wheel? As I explained in my original comment, KFX does have technical advantages over EPUB. 2) Why doesn't Kindle support EPUB natively? Probably because there isn't a need for one, as they are using KFX anyway. Why invest time in something that is only for people who aren't using your platform?
  - Timshel 4y ago
    I was reacting to (should have added a citation) : > I think there is actual technical reason why Amazon don't adapt EPUB natively Kindle is out since 2007, KFX was released in 2015, hopefully when you create your own format there is some advantages. In the end it appears we agree that the position of Amazon is : "Why invest time in something that is only for people who aren't using your platform?" But we probably disagree on the answer to it :D.
    - innocenat 4y ago
      I was saying it's a technical reason that Amazon didn't adapt EPUB, not a technical reason why they don't implement EPUB support.
      - chrisco255 4y ago
        Then surely, Amazon will show good faith and open source their superior, albeit, proprietary format and back it with a standards body that makes it less monopolistic, no?
zozbot234 4y ago
> The new KFX format has one major advantage over EPUB. The images can be stored out-of-band. EPUB is just a ZIP file. It's perfectly feasible to read the HTML/CSS and image portions separately.
- innocenat 4y ago
  Then you need to preprocess EPUB to know which order to load images, along with complicated client side download to download part by part and reassemble the .EPUB after all download are done. Not sure if that is strictly easier than just new format (which allow you to add more features you wanted too)
  - majora2007 4y ago
    That just depends on how the client consumes it. I'm the developer of Kavita and our reader doesn't download the epub at all. We read one page of the epub and rewrite the html and send it to the UI to be rendered. This way it loads like a normal html page (without having the iframe mess), images can load later, Javascript can still work within it, etc. https://kavitareader.com https://kavitareader.com for those interested.
    - innocenat 4y ago
      But at that point your client isn't really reading EPUB isn't it? Amazon backend accept EPUB (either from KDP or from Send to Kindle). Amazon then process EPUB into Amazon own format, and deliver that to Kindle device. Which sounds a lot like what you described. Btw your project is interesting. Does it support vertical-rl EPUB? After finding out Moon Reader+ doesn't it make me doubting everything now.
  - dmitriid 4y ago
    And yet Apple Books have no qualms about it and support epub.
dtagames 4y ago
The feature that is missing and most important is called out in the article: a standardized form of DRM. If you're selling a subsidized product and depending on consumable content (like razors and blades), DRM seems like something you would want. Likewise, if you sell a digital product that can be copied, DRM would be seen as an advantage. Other online media, notably streaming services and Xbox, DRM everything. I don't think Amazon is an outlier here.

Timshel 4y ago

Never had an issue with a EPUB on a kobo or a Nook reader, I clearly never tried any edge case. Not saying there might not be any issues with EPUB but the fact that in 10 years they can't be bothered to add at least a basic reader for me just mean they want to keep this incompatibility and keep people in this separated ecosystem with amazon/Kindle. I believe this choice is anything but a technical one. Since I never had much trouble using Calibre it means I'll probably never buy a Kindle just because of it but many people can't be hassled to do that.

theshrike79 4y ago
EPUB is like PDF. If you're going with just the very basic stuff: text, maybe a few images - it really doesn't matter what kind of bare-bones reader you use. BUT when you're opening a PDF that actually uses the features it's a different story. You've got a file with umpteen layers of information that needs to be displayed in a very specific way (I've seen blueprints do this for example). Most bare-bones PDF viewers either choke completely or display everything wrong.
- Timshel 4y ago
  Not sure where you are going with this :), it seems you imply that a bare bone EPUB reader is way more useful than a PDF one. Which I completely believe, PDF support on readers is always an issue (there is even a discussion on it in this thread). Then it support the position that if they added support for PDF but not a basic EPUB then this choice was not made for technical reason.
innocenat 4y ago
There's two different question here. 1) Why Amazon keep re-inventing the wheel? As I explained in my original comment, KFX does have technical advantages over EPUB. 2) Why doesn't Kindle support EPUB natively? Probably because there isn't a need for one, as they are using KFX anyway. Why invest time in something that is only for people who aren't using your platform?
- Timshel 4y ago
  I was reacting to (should have added a citation) : > I think there is actual technical reason why Amazon don't adapt EPUB natively Kindle is out since 2007, KFX was released in 2015, hopefully when you create your own format there is some advantages. In the end it appears we agree that the position of Amazon is : "Why invest time in something that is only for people who aren't using your platform?" But we probably disagree on the answer to it :D.
  - innocenat 4y ago
    I was saying it's a technical reason that Amazon didn't adapt EPUB, not a technical reason why they don't implement EPUB support.
    - chrisco255 4y ago
      Then surely, Amazon will show good faith and open source their superior, albeit, proprietary format and back it with a standards body that makes it less monopolistic, no?

zozbot234 4y ago

> The new KFX format has one major advantage over EPUB. The images can be stored out-of-band. EPUB is just a ZIP file. It's perfectly feasible to read the HTML/CSS and image portions separately.

innocenat 4y ago
Then you need to preprocess EPUB to know which order to load images, along with complicated client side download to download part by part and reassemble the .EPUB after all download are done. Not sure if that is strictly easier than just new format (which allow you to add more features you wanted too)
- majora2007 4y ago
  That just depends on how the client consumes it. I'm the developer of Kavita and our reader doesn't download the epub at all. We read one page of the epub and rewrite the html and send it to the UI to be rendered. This way it loads like a normal html page (without having the iframe mess), images can load later, Javascript can still work within it, etc. https://kavitareader.com https://kavitareader.com for those interested.
  - innocenat 4y ago
    But at that point your client isn't really reading EPUB isn't it? Amazon backend accept EPUB (either from KDP or from Send to Kindle). Amazon then process EPUB into Amazon own format, and deliver that to Kindle device. Which sounds a lot like what you described. Btw your project is interesting. Does it support vertical-rl EPUB? After finding out Moon Reader+ doesn't it make me doubting everything now.
- dmitriid 4y ago
  And yet Apple Books have no qualms about it and support epub.

dtagames 4y ago

The feature that is missing and most important is called out in the article: a standardized form of DRM. If you're selling a subsidized product and depending on consumable content (like razors and blades), DRM seems like something you would want. Likewise, if you sell a digital product that can be copied, DRM would be seen as an advantage. Other online media, notably streaming services and Xbox, DRM everything. I don't think Amazon is an outlier here.