4 ms·

Maybe this will create the voting bloc needed to get charter- and voucher-based schools off the ground, and out of the hands of unions. Public-sector monopolies

by vwoolf 4y ago

Maybe this will create the voting bloc needed to get charter- and voucher-based schools off the ground, and out of the hands of unions. Public-sector monopolies don't have a great track record.

andyferris 4y ago
Personally I’d argue that in Western countries other than the US the public-sector monopolies can often do pretty well. I’d suggest wondering why this isn’t the case in the US, and fix that instead.
- wutbrodo 4y ago
  There's a serious government competence problem in the US (just look at our infra costs), but our unserious political culture can't get past "more gov't vs less gov't" to actually start to understand and tackle the issue.
  - OldTimeCoffee 4y ago
    > (just look at our infra costs) It's the private sector completing these jobs, not government employees. Those jobs are routinely bid out to contractors, who complete the job with a profit margin. It's both sides of the coin coupled with a relentless need to profit off everything possible at every opportunity.
    - wutbrodo 4y ago
      > It's the private sector completing these jobs, not government employees. They're government projects. The details of how they staff them are part of "why is the gov't so incompetent" question. Comparable-scale private projects don't exhibit the same horrendous inefficiency relative to other countries: Apple's $256B of spending per year isn't a large multiple as inefficient as Samsung. As far as the reason, people have been trying to take a rigorous look for years and years and have come up with every reason under the sun, spanning the political spectrum: onerous environmental review, lack of nationalized benefits pushing into labor costs, unproductive construction unions, lack of oversight of private contractors, etc etc etc etc. But since the blame is bipartisan, our political culture doesn't know how to handle it. There's no constituency for basic competency in government if it can't be monocausally forced into the box of an existing generic political slapfight (as in your comment).
      - OldTimeCoffee 4y ago
        >Comparable-scale private projects don't exhibit the same horrendous inefficiency ... Apple's $256B of spending per year Literally Apple's HQ was $2 billion over budget. Private enterprise has these exact same problems. Government isn't any more or less incompetent than your average US business, unless you completely ignore how your average business operates.
- golemiprague 4y ago
eesmith 4y ago
Public schools aren't a monopoly! Quoting Murphy v. State of Arkansas (1988) at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_in_the_United_St... "parents have a constitutional right to send their children to private schools and a constitutional right to select private schools that offer specialized instruction." The track record of charter- and voucher-based schools is not better than that of public schools. In some cases, like online charters, it is far worse. Charter school teachers can and do unionize. ("When charter schools unionize, students learn more, study finds" - https://www.chalkbeat.org/2017/9/25/21100993/when-charter-schools-unionize-students-learn-more-study-finds https://www.chalkbeat.org/2017/9/25/21100993/when-charter-sc... ). Education leans towards being a natural monopoly because of the good economy of scale. It is cheaper to run a large high school than a many smaller schools, and that larger school can offer a wider diversity of courses, making it a broader match to the community's needs. A larger school system can also share administrative costs, have a permanent substitute teacher pool, etc. I don't see how charter- and voucher-based schools change that calculus, which means they will merge. Private sector monopolies have an even worse track record than public-sector monopolies like the USPS has for local mail delivery.

by vwoolf 4y ago

Maybe this will create the voting bloc needed to get charter- and voucher-based schools off the ground, and out of the hands of unions. Public-sector monopolies don't have a great track record.

andyferris 4y ago

Personally I’d argue that in Western countries other than the US the public-sector monopolies can often do pretty well. I’d suggest wondering why this isn’t the case in the US, and fix that instead.

wutbrodo 4y ago
There's a serious government competence problem in the US (just look at our infra costs), but our unserious political culture can't get past "more gov't vs less gov't" to actually start to understand and tackle the issue.
- OldTimeCoffee 4y ago
  > (just look at our infra costs) It's the private sector completing these jobs, not government employees. Those jobs are routinely bid out to contractors, who complete the job with a profit margin. It's both sides of the coin coupled with a relentless need to profit off everything possible at every opportunity.
  - wutbrodo 4y ago
    > It's the private sector completing these jobs, not government employees. They're government projects. The details of how they staff them are part of "why is the gov't so incompetent" question. Comparable-scale private projects don't exhibit the same horrendous inefficiency relative to other countries: Apple's $256B of spending per year isn't a large multiple as inefficient as Samsung. As far as the reason, people have been trying to take a rigorous look for years and years and have come up with every reason under the sun, spanning the political spectrum: onerous environmental review, lack of nationalized benefits pushing into labor costs, unproductive construction unions, lack of oversight of private contractors, etc etc etc etc. But since the blame is bipartisan, our political culture doesn't know how to handle it. There's no constituency for basic competency in government if it can't be monocausally forced into the box of an existing generic political slapfight (as in your comment).
    - OldTimeCoffee 4y ago
      >Comparable-scale private projects don't exhibit the same horrendous inefficiency ... Apple's $256B of spending per year Literally Apple's HQ was $2 billion over budget. Private enterprise has these exact same problems. Government isn't any more or less incompetent than your average US business, unless you completely ignore how your average business operates.
golemiprague 4y ago

eesmith 4y ago

Public schools aren't a monopoly! Quoting Murphy v. State of Arkansas (1988) at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homeschooling_in_the_United_St... "parents have a constitutional right to send their children to private schools and a constitutional right to select private schools that offer specialized instruction." The track record of charter- and voucher-based schools is not better than that of public schools. In some cases, like online charters, it is far worse. Charter school teachers can and do unionize. ("When charter schools unionize, students learn more, study finds" - https://www.chalkbeat.org/2017/9/25/21100993/when-charter-schools-unionize-students-learn-more-study-finds https://www.chalkbeat.org/2017/9/25/21100993/when-charter-sc... ). Education leans towards being a natural monopoly because of the good economy of scale. It is cheaper to run a large high school than a many smaller schools, and that larger school can offer a wider diversity of courses, making it a broader match to the community's needs. A larger school system can also share administrative costs, have a permanent substitute teacher pool, etc. I don't see how charter- and voucher-based schools change that calculus, which means they will merge. Private sector monopolies have an even worse track record than public-sector monopolies like the USPS has for local mail delivery.