4 ms·

> Fairness isn't a perk applied to a team, it is a property of the game. Could you clarify what this means? I’m not entirely sure I understand what you mean. I

> Fairness isn't a perk applied to a team, it is a property of the game. Could you clarify what this means? I’m not entirely sure I understand what you mean. I think I just need a little more context. > if teams who can't travel to be game are going to be included, then the host must find a way to provide a fair game. I agree with the logic but disagree with the premise: teams who can’t travel to play the game shouldn’t be included in the tournament in the first place, because it places an undue burden on the other teams and lowers the quality of play. > Unless "ability to travel during a pandemic" is considered a skill for this game I don’t think it’s a skill; it’s a basic obligation individuals and teams must fulfill.

bee_rider 4y ago
>> Fairness isn't a perk applied to a team, it is a property of the game. > Could you clarify what this means? I’m not entirely sure I understand what you mean. I think I just need a little more context. You have described fairness in terms of punishing or rewarding players for certain non-game behavior. But, this is not the right way to think of fairness, in the context of a competitive game. A competitive game has a set of rules, which the players compete under. In a fair competitive game, those rules don't favor a particular set of players. Regardless of whether they deserve it or not, players who couldn't show up in person would be playing under a handicap if there was no lag correction. >> if teams who can't travel to be game are going to be included, then the host must find a way to provide a fair game. > I agree with the logic but disagree with the premise: teams who can’t travel to play the game shouldn’t be included in the tournament in the first place, because it places an undue burden on the other teams and lowers the quality of play. >> Unless "ability to travel during a pandemic" is considered a skill for this game > I don’t think it’s a skill; it’s a basic obligation individuals and teams must fulfill. Sure, it is an understandable position to hold, that players who can't show up shouldn't be able to play. Riot clearly disagrees with you(for business reasons probably, mostly). I sort of disagree with you, mostly because I think that while we're in this weird liminal stage of the pandemic, I think we should try to accommodate people who want to engage from home. But this is a soft disagreement, I think there are good arguments either way. However, once the decision is made about which players will be included in the tournament, if the tournament is to be taken seriously it must present a level playing field to the players who've been let in.
- DantesKite 4y ago
  My only rebuttal would be that I don't think the actual game itself should be affected if we want to preserve competitive integrity. That's where I draw the line. Raising the ping at a LAN does affect gameplay and rather significantly. I do agree with you the host should make a decent effort of accommodating players who can't travel though, but I thought this was pushing it a bit too far for my taste. What's funny about all this is that technically because the Asian Games aren't going to be held anymore and because it was one of the mitigating factors for RNG not travelling, technically they could physically travel to Korea now.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    It is a funny position that Esports are in. Normal, recreational competition takes place online with random pings. Pro competitions take place with set, usually minimal ping. For everybody but the pros, adjusting to lag is a crucial skill. Maybe tournaments games should be played as 'sets,' where everybody on each team gets randomized ping, to test that skill. (just kidding (although it would be interesting)).

bee_rider 4y ago

>> Fairness isn't a perk applied to a team, it is a property of the game. > Could you clarify what this means? I’m not entirely sure I understand what you mean. I think I just need a little more context. You have described fairness in terms of punishing or rewarding players for certain non-game behavior. But, this is not the right way to think of fairness, in the context of a competitive game. A competitive game has a set of rules, which the players compete under. In a fair competitive game, those rules don't favor a particular set of players. Regardless of whether they deserve it or not, players who couldn't show up in person would be playing under a handicap if there was no lag correction. >> if teams who can't travel to be game are going to be included, then the host must find a way to provide a fair game. > I agree with the logic but disagree with the premise: teams who can’t travel to play the game shouldn’t be included in the tournament in the first place, because it places an undue burden on the other teams and lowers the quality of play. >> Unless "ability to travel during a pandemic" is considered a skill for this game > I don’t think it’s a skill; it’s a basic obligation individuals and teams must fulfill. Sure, it is an understandable position to hold, that players who can't show up shouldn't be able to play. Riot clearly disagrees with you(for business reasons probably, mostly). I sort of disagree with you, mostly because I think that while we're in this weird liminal stage of the pandemic, I think we should try to accommodate people who want to engage from home. But this is a soft disagreement, I think there are good arguments either way. However, once the decision is made about which players will be included in the tournament, if the tournament is to be taken seriously it must present a level playing field to the players who've been let in.

DantesKite 4y ago
My only rebuttal would be that I don't think the actual game itself should be affected if we want to preserve competitive integrity. That's where I draw the line. Raising the ping at a LAN does affect gameplay and rather significantly. I do agree with you the host should make a decent effort of accommodating players who can't travel though, but I thought this was pushing it a bit too far for my taste. What's funny about all this is that technically because the Asian Games aren't going to be held anymore and because it was one of the mitigating factors for RNG not travelling, technically they could physically travel to Korea now.
- bee_rider 4y ago
  It is a funny position that Esports are in. Normal, recreational competition takes place online with random pings. Pro competitions take place with set, usually minimal ping. For everybody but the pros, adjusting to lag is a crucial skill. Maybe tournaments games should be played as 'sets,' where everybody on each team gets randomized ping, to test that skill. (just kidding (although it would be interesting)).