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> This is the standard argument as to why no government regulation is necessary -- "because you can just walk away/change jobs!" I didn't say this because I th

> This is the standard argument as to why no government regulation is necessary -- "because you can just walk away/change jobs!" I didn't say this because I think government regulation or unionization isn't necessary. I said it because I don't believe government regulation will happen in the US in my lifetime. Nor do I expect to see the big 4 consulting firms unionized before Judgment Day. And, yes, I have lost jobs for not picking up the phone at 10pm on a Saturday night. Freedom isn't free. I look for individual solutions to systemic issues because I don't trust the collective to have my back. I understand that collective action is necessary, but let's face it: the left in the US is too busy dicking around with the culture war to show up for the class war. They think that labels describing race, gender, sexuality, etc matter more than whether you're working-class or owning-class. I'm looking out for myself because I've given up on anybody else looking out for me. I advise others to do the same.

toomuchtodo 4y ago
Just because you’ve given up doesn’t mean you should advise others to do the same. Like an airplane, put the oxygen mask on yourself before helping others. You’ve then de-risked individually while supporting improvements for workers collectively.
- EddieDante 4y ago
  Who says I'm giving up? I'm engaging in industrial action on my own since others in my workplace are unwilling to join me. I'm being the change I want to see in the world by engaging in work-to-rule.
  - jedberg 4y ago
    Work to rule only works if everyone does it, so that they can't single anyone out. If only people who can afford it do it, then it doesn't do anything at all.
    - EddieDante 4y ago
      I'm not sure what else I can do on my own.
jedberg 4y ago
> And, yes, I have lost jobs for not picking up the phone at 10pm on a Saturday night. Freedom isn't free. Luckily you had the safety net to survive that. > I'm looking out for myself because I've given up on anybody else looking out for me. I advise others to do the same. Why not both? Look out for yourself but also try to help others? I honestly think tech workers for all the big companies will be unionized in the next decade. There is already a perfect model out there: The screen actors guild. That union sets minimum rules around pay, safety, overtime, residuals, and so on, but still allows for "superstars" to make far more. That's the kind of union developers need. One that specifies some minimums that companies must follow (like protecting after hours disconnection and making sure all the workers get a piece of the success) but still allows people to make more and get better benefits.
- EddieDante 4y ago
  > Luckily you had the safety net to survive that. The only safety net I had was two months' salary saved up. I didn't even get unemployment compensation; by the time the company got nailed for classifying me as a 1099 while treating me as a W-2 I had already found a different job. > I honestly think tech workers for all the big companies will be unionized in the next decade. There is already a perfect model out there: The screen actors guild. That union sets minimum rules around pay, safety, overtime, residuals, and so on, but still allows for "superstars" to make far more. I'd love to see that happen. I'm not counting on it. And I've given up on trying to persuade my coworkers to unionize. If I were at all charismatic or persuasive I wouldn't be working in tech to begin with.
- tick_tock_tick 4y ago
  > I honestly think tech workers for all the big companies will be unionized in the next decade. 0% to even lets say 50% instead of "all" in 10 years is just not possible. The "valuable" employees (engineers) for these companies don't even want to unionize. You'll have to convince them that somehow it would work out in there favor before you could even start the effort and that would take years alone.
  - nicoburns 4y ago
neither_color 4y ago
In the early days of the labor movement when factory workers went on strike they had the problem of scabs -temporary workers brought in. These days any job done fully online can be outsourced, do you think we'll see instances of virtual scabs?

toomuchtodo 4y ago

Just because you’ve given up doesn’t mean you should advise others to do the same. Like an airplane, put the oxygen mask on yourself before helping others. You’ve then de-risked individually while supporting improvements for workers collectively.

EddieDante 4y ago
Who says I'm giving up? I'm engaging in industrial action on my own since others in my workplace are unwilling to join me. I'm being the change I want to see in the world by engaging in work-to-rule.
- jedberg 4y ago
  Work to rule only works if everyone does it, so that they can't single anyone out. If only people who can afford it do it, then it doesn't do anything at all.
  - EddieDante 4y ago
    I'm not sure what else I can do on my own.

jedberg 4y ago

> And, yes, I have lost jobs for not picking up the phone at 10pm on a Saturday night. Freedom isn't free. Luckily you had the safety net to survive that. > I'm looking out for myself because I've given up on anybody else looking out for me. I advise others to do the same. Why not both? Look out for yourself but also try to help others? I honestly think tech workers for all the big companies will be unionized in the next decade. There is already a perfect model out there: The screen actors guild. That union sets minimum rules around pay, safety, overtime, residuals, and so on, but still allows for "superstars" to make far more. That's the kind of union developers need. One that specifies some minimums that companies must follow (like protecting after hours disconnection and making sure all the workers get a piece of the success) but still allows people to make more and get better benefits.

EddieDante 4y ago
> Luckily you had the safety net to survive that. The only safety net I had was two months' salary saved up. I didn't even get unemployment compensation; by the time the company got nailed for classifying me as a 1099 while treating me as a W-2 I had already found a different job. > I honestly think tech workers for all the big companies will be unionized in the next decade. There is already a perfect model out there: The screen actors guild. That union sets minimum rules around pay, safety, overtime, residuals, and so on, but still allows for "superstars" to make far more. I'd love to see that happen. I'm not counting on it. And I've given up on trying to persuade my coworkers to unionize. If I were at all charismatic or persuasive I wouldn't be working in tech to begin with.
tick_tock_tick 4y ago
> I honestly think tech workers for all the big companies will be unionized in the next decade. 0% to even lets say 50% instead of "all" in 10 years is just not possible. The "valuable" employees (engineers) for these companies don't even want to unionize. You'll have to convince them that somehow it would work out in there favor before you could even start the effort and that would take years alone.
- nicoburns 4y ago

neither_color 4y ago

In the early days of the labor movement when factory workers went on strike they had the problem of scabs -temporary workers brought in. These days any job done fully online can be outsourced, do you think we'll see instances of virtual scabs?